Vance Harral Posted June 25, 2021 Report Share Posted June 25, 2021 9 hours ago, 58Victor said: Here is the quote It's kind of 58Victor to post his quote, I'm sure many appreciate it. I continue to be intrigued by the difference in installed price between the G5 and GI-275. The latter is a more capable instrument, but walk-away price is dramatically higher than a G5, not just slightly higher. The instrument itself only retails for about $1100 more, i.e. $2200 for a dual installation. But I've seen numerous posts in numerous places of $15K+ dual GI-275 installations, which seems to be $5K or more above a comparable dual G5 installation. This seems at odds with claims from decent sources that the GI-275 is actually easier to install. Seems to me that shops are still charging a premium for the latest shiny new toy. Nothing wrong with that, I just keep wondering if I'm missing something else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteMc Posted June 25, 2021 Report Share Posted June 25, 2021 I think a lot depends on which flavor of the 275 you install and how many options you get. The G5 is a basic relatively straight forward unit where there are some very critical installation issues if you go with one of higher end 275s. And if you do a set of high end 275 I hear there is always going to be a fair amount of time/labor involved finding a location for the second magnetometer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vance Harral Posted June 25, 2021 Report Share Posted June 25, 2021 14 minutes ago, PeteMc said: I think a lot depends on which flavor of the 275 you install and how many options you get. Sure, but the quotes I'm seeing and comparing with G5 installations are comparable: sometimes interfaced to an autopilot, sometimes not; sometimes with additional work like a panel recut and/or new audio panel, sometimes not. I've been careful not to compare the most basic G5 installation with the highest-end GI-275 installation. Still, best as I can tell, there has been and continues to be an installation premium for the 275. It sure seems like either it's more complicated to install in a similar capacity vs. a G5, or that installers are padding the labor required to do the job (again, not that there's anything wrong with that). Full disclosure: when our mechanical AI went belly up a few months ago, we opted for the G5, based on cost/benefit tradeoff. But I don't mean to suggest the GI-275 isn't worth a premium. Just curious about the actual installation time/cost for what is theoretically supposed to be an easier install. My understanding is the GI-275 essentially always slides right in to holes vacated by another 3.25" instrument, whereas the G5 sometimes requires oval-ing out holes to fit, and of course requires more significant surgery if you want a flush mount. It's also my understanding that few GI-275 installations require the additional part/labor cost of a GAD29/B or similar due to native ARINC-429 support, whereas many G5 installations require the extra box. Still, walk-away prices seem consistently, dramatically higher for the 275. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
58Victor Posted June 25, 2021 Report Share Posted June 25, 2021 59 minutes ago, Vance Harral said: It's kind of 58Victor to post his quote, I'm sure many appreciate it. I continue to be intrigued by the difference in installed price between the G5 and GI-275. The latter is a more capable instrument, but walk-away price is dramatically higher than a G5, not just slightly higher. The instrument itself only retails for about $1100 more, i.e. $2200 for a dual installation. But I've seen numerous posts in numerous places of $15K+ dual GI-275 installations, which seems to be $5K or more above a comparable dual G5 installation. This seems at odds with claims from decent sources that the GI-275 is actually easier to install. Seems to me that shops are still charging a premium for the latest shiny new toy. Nothing wrong with that, I just keep wondering if I'm missing something else. I had originally bought the G5's, but when they went to put them in they weren't confident as to how they would appear in my panel due to the cutting and filing that would be required to make the install aesthetically pleasing to sit behind. My understanding was they couldn't guarantee the alignment of the indicators and for an additional $2500 I'd get the latest. the thought of spending all that money and then be staring at some misalignment or having my airplane hacked and filed made the decision easier. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixstring2k Posted June 25, 2021 Report Share Posted June 25, 2021 7 hours ago, MIm20c said: Fly your plane to three reputable shops, within reasonable distance, and ask to speak with the owner or lead installer. Ask them to quote you on the spot (both cost and availability). You can size up the operation, get a feel for the amount of knowledge the team has, and look at the quality/scope of the current projects they’re working on. Put the time in if you want results. Think about all the post we get a day on here for buying a new plane, starting a panel overhaul, etc. You yourself sent out requests to 10 shops. They are probably getting blasted right now from tire kickers looking for cheap bids or people wanting work done RIGHT NOW. There is a HUGE difference between making a commitment and not following through vs selectively culling through the inquiries. This ^^^^^. When they see you in person they will most likely take you more seriously because you took the time to go to them and will give you a more accurate quote and scope of the job because they can see what they are going to be working with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vance Harral Posted June 25, 2021 Report Share Posted June 25, 2021 1 minute ago, 58Victor said: and for an additional $2500 I'd get the latest. Again, thanks for being so willing to share details. Your $2500 decision is certainly rational, though it's worth noting the markup your shop quoted vs. buy-it-yourself prices is much higher on the G5 option than the GI-275 option. e.g. G5 certified ADI is $2345 at Sarasota Avionics vs. $4000 in your quote (70% markup), whereas the GI-275 ADI is $4689 at Sarasota vs. $5500 in your quote (18% markup). I have no issues with installers marking up the cost of parts, and it may be that Garmin themselves is offering installers significant incentives on the GI-275 vs. list price. Please don't interpret any of my comments as criticism or nit-picking of your choices. The GI-275 is an awesome instrument, I'm sure you're very happy with yours, and you certainly shouldn't care about my opinions. Just discussing the state of the market, in the finest Mooney CB tradition. The certified version of the G5 is only about 4 years old, and at the time of introduction was seen as an incredible, game-changing option for price vs. features. Now it's second fiddle, and for those of us who ride the trailing wave of 2nd generation depreciation, it seems like a heck of a deal as the latest-and-greatest crowd gravitates to the GI-275. When/if it comes to installing a second G5 in our airplane, I'm hoping to pick up a used one from someone who wants the GI-275 enough to upgrade. Any of you Mooneyspacers contemplating this upgrade? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyboy0681 Posted June 25, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2021 3 hours ago, PeteMc said: I think a lot depends on which flavor of the 275 you install and how many options you get. The G5 is a basic relatively straight forward unit where there are some very critical installation issues if you go with one of higher end 275s. And if you do a set of high end 275 I hear there is always going to be a fair amount of time/labor involved finding a location for the second magnetometer. The estimates that I have received for a -275 HSI with an autopilot interface and AHRS to act as secondary AI in case the other -275 fails, are coming in fairly consistent between $7,500 and $8000. The quotes pretty much call for 50 hours of labor at an average of $100/hr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OR75 Posted June 26, 2021 Report Share Posted June 26, 2021 5 hours ago, Vance Harral said: It's kind of 58Victor to post his quote, I'm sure many appreciate it. I continue to be intrigued by the difference in installed price between the G5 and GI-275. The latter is a more capable instrument, but walk-away price is dramatically higher than a G5, not just slightly higher. The instrument itself only retails for about $1100 more, i.e. $2200 for a dual installation. But I've seen numerous posts in numerous places of $15K+ dual GI-275 installations, which seems to be $5K or more above a comparable dual G5 installation. This seems at odds with claims from decent sources that the GI-275 is actually easier to install. Seems to me that shops are still charging a premium for the latest shiny new toy. Nothing wrong with that, I just keep wondering if I'm missing something else. Yes, you have missed a big part. The G5 you can buy and have it installed by any AP/IA the GI275, you have to go to a Garmin dealer. huge difference Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aviatoreb Posted June 26, 2021 Report Share Posted June 26, 2021 Just now, OR75 said: Yes, you have missed a big part. The G5 you can buy and have it installed by any AP/IA the GI275, you have to go to a Garmin dealer. huge difference Note - the g5 does not interface with many of our autopilots but the gi275 does - my kfc200. So it was not a matter of choosing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OR75 Posted June 26, 2021 Report Share Posted June 26, 2021 Just now, aviatoreb said: Note - the g5 does not interface with many of our autopilots but the gi275 does - my kfc200. So it was not a matter of choosing. Understood, but that’s factored in the price of the instrument as it should be . More capable instrument , more expensive. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aviatoreb Posted June 26, 2021 Report Share Posted June 26, 2021 Just now, OR75 said: Understood, but that’s factored in the price of the instrument as it should be . More capable instrument , more expensive. Sure - I agree - but just adding to the discussion / the g5 simply won’t drive the kfc200 that many of us have. I do like that the gi275 doesn’t require slot of extra boxes that I think the g5 needs for those autopilots it does drive. Everything is in the box. Anyway the only choices were, get a new autopilot, keep my steam gauges, aspen of gi275. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OR75 Posted June 26, 2021 Report Share Posted June 26, 2021 4 minutes ago, aviatoreb said: Sure - I agree - but just adding to the discussion / the g5 simply won’t drive the kfc200 that many of us have. I do like that the gi275 doesn’t require slot of extra boxes that I think the g5 needs for those autopilots it does drive. Everything is in the box. Anyway the only choices were, get a new autopilot, keep my steam gauges, aspen of gi275. I was answering why the installation cost was more expensive. actually if less boxes need to be installed, if anything, the installation of a GI275 should be cheaper than the install of a G5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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