2000 M20M Bravo Built-in Oxygen

[Comstar]

Anyone know what the expected flow rate in liters per minute the built-in oxygen system of a 2000 Mooney M20M Bravo should be? Also, what would one need to measure the output and validate that it is putting out at least 2 liters per minute? 

[carusoam]

How Bravo related do you think this O2 flow issue is?

There are various O2 system suppliers that make decent recommendations for the appropriate hardware...

Including on demand systems, and O2 saturation testing equipment... and back-up O2 systems.

Don’t be afraid to ask what sounds like goofy questions...

We lost a turbo Mooney pilot because he fell asleep at the wheel....

PP thoughts only.
 

Best regards,

-a-

[Awful_Charlie]

If you check out the specifications of the altitude compensating regulator and the adapter fittings called for in the POH, then you will be able to work out the litres per minute expected for the altitude you are interested in. To measure it, a large variety of flow meters are available, just choose one that fits your immediate (and maybe longer term) needs

[Comstar]

On 5/9/2021 at 4:10 PM, Awful_Charlie said:

If you check out the specifications of the altitude compensating regulator and the adapter fittings called for in the POH, then you will be able to work out the litres per minute expected for the altitude you are interested in. To measure it, a large variety of flow meters are available, just choose one that fits your immediate (and maybe longer term) needs

Thanks everyone. The reason I asked was the masks we purchased for flights into the flight levels requires a 2 lpm flow. 

[Awful_Charlie]

On 5/24/2021 at 6:30 PM, Comstar said:

Thanks everyone. The reason I asked was the masks we purchased for flights into the flight levels requires a 2 lpm flow. 

For constant flow in the FL's, 2lpm sounds on the low side, and therefore potentially downright dangerous. Of course the FL could be just about anything (eg they start at FL030/3000' in the UK!) - check out the FAA requirements in FAR 23.1441/23.1443 

My Bravo has an 803216-03 regulator, and that has a max flow of 85lpm (at 35,000') which with Green adapters gets 3lpm per person at 20,000'/55psig/62psia

Do take care out there

[Comstar]

3 hours ago, Awful_Charlie said:

For constant flow in the FL's, 2lpm sounds on the low side, and therefore potentially downright dangerous. Of course the FL could be just about anything (eg they start at FL030/3000' in the UK!) - check out the FAA requirements in FAR 23.1441/23.1443 

My Bravo has an 803216-03 regulator, and that has a max flow of 85lpm (at 35,000') which with Green adapters gets 3lpm per person at 20,000'/55psig/62psia

Do take care out there

Thanks @Awful_Charlie. I went ahead and bought the AEROX 4110-712 SERIES OXYGEN MASK FAA-TSO as we already had cannulas. My problem with the cannulas was I was needing more oxygen at 17,000 as my pulse-ox was dropping into the mid 80s so ended up descending to avoid issues. With the Aerox Flowmeter showing excellent flow we went back up to altitude on a much shorter trip over the weekend and the pulse-ox showed 95% and above consistently with the flowmeter at 18K.

I misread the specifications as it says it delivers a minimum of 2.5 lpm. I am new to high altitude flying and appreciate all of the information I have gotten from those who have done it a lot. 

[carusoam]

Great pirep on usability of cannula vs. Masks...

There is also a rule about using masks above a certain altitude...   with your data, I see why the rule exists... 

+1 for having extra SPO2 sensors 

+1 for having a back-up O2 supply

+1 for having a good CO monitor....

When flying in the FLs... it is easy to accidentally sleep through an important meeting....

 

 

PP thoughts only, not a CFI...

Best regards,

-a-

[affricate]

On 5/25/2021 at 9:17 PM, carusoam said:

Great pirep on usability of cannula vs. Masks...

There is also a rule about using masks above a certain altitude...   with your data, I see why the rule exists... 

+1 for having extra SPO2 sensors 

+1 for having a back-up O2 supply

+1 for having a good CO monitor....

When flying in the FLs... it is easy to accidentally sleep through an important meeting....

 

 

PP thoughts only, not a CFI...

Best regards,

-a-

Oxygen is cheap, and I tend to turn it up at flight levels !!

[donkaye]

I don't care what the cannula flow meter reads.  I set the flow to the lowest level that'll provide at least 96% O2 saturation as read on a pulse oximeter.  I carry 2 of those on every flight.  For cross country flights I carry a backup 22 cu ft tank.  It's 10 pounds of useful load lost, but the extra safety factor makes it worth it to me.

Some people have had success with the Mountain High conserving system.  I sent mine back when I couldn't get an O2 saturation level above 93% at its highest delivery level.

[carusoam]

Great actual O2 system details shared, Don!

Thanks for taking the time to share them.

Best regards,

-a-

[mike_elliott]

For those planning to attend the Mooney Summit Oct 22-24, you will be able to speak to Aerox in depth about O best practices and win a 4 place portable system in the raffle. Like Don, I would fly with a min of 93% but at my age, now I stay out of the FL's just because it is a harsh environment up there with a lot of negative consequences if things go wrong in a non pressurized plane. 

[Davidv]

I just bought the 22 cubic ft backup bottle, at around $600 seemed like a good investment

[mike_elliott]

34 minutes ago, Davidv said:

I just bought the 22 cubic ft backup bottle, at around $600 seemed like a good investment

Last Summit, we had the hypoxia chamber from CAMI. If you havent done this yet, it is a great exercise to know yourself and the tells you have of hypoxia. That reminds me, I am going to start working on Don Desmuth now to bring it to the next Summit in 2022. They have to budget a couple years out, and it was a non starter to even attempt to get it this Summit. I dont think they are going to OSH this year even.

 

[Davidv]

Just now, mike_elliott said:

Last Summit, we had the hypoxia chamber from CAMI. If you havent done this yet, it is a great exercise to know yourself and the tells you have of hypoxia. That reminds me, I am going to start working on Don Desmuth now to bring it to the next Summit in 2022. They have to budget a couple years out, and it was a non starter to even attempt to get it this Summit. I dont think they are going to OSH this year even.

 

Yes, I did that at the Summit last year.  I think it may have helped save my life when I lost my O2 while at 24K feet over the gulf of mexico last year (due to my regulator tube separating).

[mike_elliott]

Just now, Davidv said:

Yes, I did that at the Summit last year.  I think it may have helped save my life when I lost my O2 while at 24K feet over the gulf of mexico last year (due to my regulator tube separating).

Another suggestion David when cruising in the FL's is to setup your altitude preselect to something like 15K and a rapid decent rate so you just have to engage when you are in the FL's and things go pear shaped. You can apologize on the way down with "oxygen issue, need expedited immediate decent"

[Davidv]

Just now, mike_elliott said:

Another suggestion David when cruising in the FL's is to setup your altitude preselect to something like 15K and a rapid decent rate so you just have to engage when you are in the FL's and things go pear shaped. You can apologize on the way down with "oxygen issue, need expedited immediate decent"

Yes, my avionics weren't the best at the time but I do this now.  Fortunately I was well aware that I had lost the 02 but the chamber really helped me realize that with the symptoms I was feeling I only had a few minutes and needed to make a decision immediately.

[mike_elliott]

3 minutes ago, Davidv said:

Yes, my avionics weren't the best at the time but I do this now.  Fortunately I was well aware that I had lost the 02 but the chamber really helped me realize that with the symptoms I was feeling I only had a few minutes and needed to make a decision immediately.

Lets make sure we get you Jonny and Kevin to come to the Summit this year!

[JohnB]

+1 on attending at least one Hypoxia chamber class for anyone who flies above 10k. Hugely helpful to get to know your own symptoms of hypoxia. (They are very different for everyone) I can now recognize my early symptoms which can easily occur (kinked hose, temperature change, flow change) during flight and know I need to check my O2 saturation level when I get any one of my symptoms. Glad you're pursuing getting a chamber at the Summit Mike.