Overhaul help

[BravoWhiskey]

I’m new to the Bravo world and decided to overhaul my engine right away.  Shop found 3 cracked cylinders so now I am stuck trying to find cylinders.  Does anyone know where I can find a set of #05K22177 cylinders or has anyone done an overhaul recently and still have a set of first run takeoffs?  Any help would be greatly appreciated!

[alextstone]

1 hour ago, BravoWhiskey said:

I’m new to the Bravo world and decided to overhaul my engine right away.  Shop found 3 cracked cylinders so now I am stuck trying to find cylinders.  Does anyone know where I can find a set of #05K22177 cylinders or has anyone done an overhaul recently and still have a set of first run takeoffs?  Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Wow, three cracked cylinders!  Do you have any photos?

[BravoWhiskey]

No photos yet.  They were very slight cracks.  Had good compression.  Cracks were found during breakdown and now I am engineless...  

[ArtVandelay]

I think I would replace them all, don’t think I would have confidence in the remaining 3.

[Rick Junkin]

9 hours ago, BravoWhiskey said:

I’m new to the Bravo world and decided to overhaul my engine right away.  Shop found 3 cracked cylinders so now I am stuck trying to find cylinders.  Does anyone know where I can find a set of #05K22177 cylinders or has anyone done an overhaul recently and still have a set of first run takeoffs?  Any help would be greatly appreciated!

@BravoWhiskeyAir Power has them in stock for $3K each if you need to go with new, http://www.airpowerinc.com/productcart/pc/cylinders.asp?catid=70&subcat=80&mfgid=&prodid=11702&x=TIO540

Cheers,
Rick

[BravoWhiskey]

Yeah I’m looking for full set.  Shop Tried  AirPower but none in stock.  Thanks though.  I didn’t expect the overhaul to be this complicated.  

[carusoam]

On a scale from easy to challenging....  in the Mooney World...

There probably isn’t a more complex engine to OH than a six cylinder, TC’d engine...

Possibly one more challenging because it has a pair of TNs.... 

So....  calibrating that scale, over an alphabetical range from A to V....  I’d give that an M...

Fortunately, Cracked cylinders are not a very common occurrence...

 

If you have engine monitor data... downloading it and taking a look at how the engine has been operated might be fruitful...  got a JPI for that?

 

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic...

Best regards,

-a-

 

 

[BravoWhiskey]

I knew the engine was treated poorly when I bought it.  That’s why I decided on an immediate overhaul instead of waiting... turned out to be the right move.  Lead time on cylinders caught me by surprise.  The MT 4 blade came in quicker...

[N201MKTurbo]

It took me 8 months to overhaul my engine. Most of that time was spent waiting for the brown truck to arrive.. the thing that set me back the most was bearings. They took forever to get.

[FoxMike]

I have 6 cylinders I just removed from my Bravo.  They have just under 2200hrs on them.I bought 6 new ones from lycoming and waited 8 months for them..the cylinders are in good shape.  Lycoming told me they were designed to go 3500hrs.  I travel to some out of the way places and hate having trouble on the road so i decided to go for the new cylinders.  I will be at the hangar tomorrow and will photograph each cylinder.  Show them to your mechanic and if he likes them maybe we can make a deal.

Walt

[BravoWhiskey]

Thanks Walt

just sent you a PM.  I’d be happy to discuss further.

[LANCECASPER]

The delay on these cylinders is almost always the exhaust Valve Guides. The Bravo engine uses exhaust valve guides that are only used in these cylinders. So whether you are waiting for new cylinders or planning on having a set of cylinders rebuilt, most likely you'll be waiting for valve guides.

Since you already feel that the engine was poorly treated, and it is already more than 75% to TBO (https://www.aircraft.com/aircraft/199540225/n809bw-2005-mooney-m20m-gx-bravo), you might just bite the bullet and buy a factory reman. If they have one ready to ship you'll be in the air a lot sooner with a Lycoming warranty. If the engine was thrashed you might find that your cam and lifters are bad and who knows what the case and crankshaft are like? Since your airplane is a 2005, your engine is less than 20 years. Lycoming will give you a rebuilt engine in exchange on a first run engine for the price of a factory overhaul, a savings of usually about $6000. (https://www.lycoming.com/services/loyalty)

You have a beautiful GX Bravo that is one of the few Bravos ever optioned with A/C, and the only Bravo that I'm aware of with both TKS and A/C. It's one of the last ones made, #334 out of 350. A new engine won't add value dollar-for-dollar, but will certainly add value and remove any question marks and nagging maintenance issues with an aggressively flown engine and get you back in the air to fly your airplane.

[philiplane]

[affricate]

My exhaust valve cracked in cylinder 2 and ended up in my turbo resulting in a sudden diversion to T92 flying from KBTR to KTUS. I was at 16,5 Declared emergency with Houston Center, landed safely. 

2050 total time (totally bummed because I wanted to get 2200 hrs

Airmark is doing the MOH as we speak. 

I purchased the plane in October - high time engine (1950 hrs). Oil samples and compressions were normal at time of sale. Latest oil sample one week prior to exhaust valve crack was high iron, and 30 min before incident, I noticed inconsistent fuel burn per hour plus lower end of normal oil pressure. 

[LANCECASPER]

3 minutes ago, affricate said:

My exhaust valve cracked in cylinder 2 and ended up in my turbo resulting in a sudden diversion to T92 flying from KBTR to KTUS. I was at 16,5 Declared emergency with Houston Center, landed safely. 

2050 total time (totally bummed because I wanted to get 2200 hrs

Airmark is doing the MOH as we speak. 

I'm 30 mi. S of Mason TX (T92). I go up there to do practice approaches and get fuel. They have the runway closed through May 14. Sorry to hear about your engine problems. Is your airplane still at T92?

[affricate]

4 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

I'm 30 mi. S of Mason TX (T92). I go up there to do practice approaches and get fuel. They have the runway closed through May 14. Sorry to hear about your engine problems. Is your airplane still at T92?

This happened 4 weeks ago. I was descending to get cheap fuel in El Dorado when it popped. I glided into T92, and 6 deer crossed the runway after I landed.  Was stuck out there, found  Sam Thiele from Junction. He called the judge who runs T92 and got me a hanger there. Sam has been great. He and Dallas from Junction are great folks. My buddy picked me in his Rocket!

 

[LANCECASPER]

Just now, affricate said:

This happened 4 weeks ago. I was stuck out there, found  Sam Thiele from Junction. He called the judge who runs T92 and got me a hanger there. Sam has been great. He and Dallas from Junction are great folks. My buddy picked me in his Rocket!

That's good. Are they going to re-install your engine when it's done?

David Behren's guys from Dugosh in Kerrville might be willing to go out there. they have a lot of experience with Bravos. Also Brian Kendrick lives in Kerrville, but travels and he is a Mooney guru. PM me if you need any help.

[affricate]

8 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

That's good. Are they going to re-install your engine when it's done?

David Behren's guys from Dugosh in Kerrville might be willing to go out there. they have a lot of experience with Bravos. Also Brian Kendrick lives in Kerrville, but travels and he is a Mooney guru. PM me if you need any help.

Much appreciated, thank you.

Sam knows Don Maxwell and called him to double check a few things. He's already sent out the prop and ordered the hose kit. He's comfortable putting the engine back in. I'll definitely PM you. BTW, your plane looks beautiful. I'm missing my plane right now !!  Just had my tanks sealed by Edison in Ft Lauderdale, so once the engine is set, should be good to go!

[LANCECASPER]

Just now, affricate said:

Much appreciated, thank you 

Sam knows Don Maxwell from Kerrville and called him to double check a few things. He's already sent out the prop and ordered the hose kit. He's comfortable putting the engine back in. I'll definitely PM you. Your plane looks beautiful. I'm missing my plane right now !!  Just had my tanks sealed by Edison in Ft Lauderdale, so once the engine is set, should be good to go!

Don Maxwell is in Longview TX (KGGG) over in East Texas.

If you fly back from KTUS into KSAT or KAUS commercially I'm sure I can figure out a way to get you to Mason, TX to pick up your airplane. If they install the engine it might not hurt to have Dugosh look it over before you fly back to KTUS, just to make sure fuel flow and everything is set up right. 

[LANCECASPER]

Also it's a good time to really look over and maybe rebuild the exhaust system if that hasn't been done recently. If previous owners flew it hot the exhaust can be pretty thin in places.

[affricate]

Just now, LANCECASPER said:

Also it's a good time to really look over and maybe rebuild the exhaust system if that hasn't been done recently. If previous owners flew it hot the exhaust can be pretty thin in places.

Correct, he's sending that out, too. Good point. 

[affricate]

1 minute ago, LANCECASPER said:

Don Maxwell is in Longview TX (KGGG) over in East Texas.

If you fly back from KTUS into KSAT or KAUS commercially I'm sure I can figure out a way to get you to Mason, TX to pick up your airplane. If they install the engine it might not hurt to have Dugosh look it over before you fly back to KTUS, just to make sure fuel flow and everything is set up right. 

My friend who owns the rocket  has been a pilot for 45 years. We are both headed to  Mason when it's ready and work out any settings before heading back to Tucson. I appreciate your offer. Regardless, I will PM you as it's always great to have a contact in the area. It may be worth a trip to Dugosh, too. 

[LANCECASPER]

Sounds good I'll PM you my contact info

[Rick Junkin]

11 hours ago, affricate said:

My exhaust valve cracked in cylinder 2 and ended up in my turbo resulting in a sudden diversion to T92 flying from KBTR to KTUS. I was at 16,5 Declared emergency with Houston Center, landed safely. 

2050 total time (totally bummed because I wanted to get 2200 hrs

Airmark is doing the MOH as we speak. 

I purchased the plane in October - high time engine (1950 hrs). Oil samples and compressions were normal at time of sale. Latest oil sample one week prior to exhaust valve crack was high iron, and 30 min before incident, I noticed inconsistent fuel burn per hour plus lower end of normal oil pressure. 

@affricate Had you borescoped the cylinders since you bought the airplane? I'm curious if there were any observable exhaust valve anomalies prior to failure, and if not, how long it had been since the last borescope. I check mine every ~25 hours at oil change and would like to know if there's reason to take a look more often. Thanks for any info!

Cheers,
Rick

[LANCECASPER]

Lycoming recommends the “wobble” test.