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Looking for a M20 201J, opinions about speed breaks

Mooneyys Flo

By Mooneyys Flo
in European Mooney Pilots

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Mooneyys Flo Rookie

Mooneyys Flo

Posted
Posted (edited)

Hi Guys, 

I have been looking for a nice Mooney m20 201J. 

I have been reading at mooneys pace chats and forums many interesting topics. I liked the deep conversation here.  

What are your opinions about speed breaks? 

Does anyone know someone who what's to sell his Mooney? 

Best regards 

Florian from Germany

 

 

Edited by Mooneyys Flo
Oldguy Veteran

Oldguy

Posted
Posted

Florian, my J model has speed brakes, and while I do not use them often, when I need to use them, they are nice to have. Most use comes from ATC keeping me at altitude and then asking me to "drop" several thousand feet in a short distance. If my Mooney had not had them, I still would have purchased it but would not have added them.

So having them I see as a benefit, but not one I would necessarily add to my plane.

N201MKTurbo Grand Master

N201MKTurbo

Posted
Posted

I have speed brakes on my 201. I had a M20F for 19 years before this plane and it didn't have speed brakes. They come in handy at times, but I wouldn't spend the money to put them on the plane. If they went away I wouldn't really miss them.

Mooneyys Flo Rookie

Mooneyys Flo

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)

Awesome, thanks for your inputs :)

That is what I looking for. Right now I would like to have them but often there 201J offered without and I don't know how much I will need it. 

 

I think it is standard on a K and with a faster Mooney 252 probably necessary anyways. 

 

If anyone knows someone who want to sell his or her Mooney 201 or 252 please let me know :)

Edited by Mooneyys Flo
larryb Mentor

larryb

Posted
Posted

I really like mine. I had an 84 J without speed brakes, and I now have an Encore with them. But it's not just the brakes that make the Encore better in this area, it's also the higher gear speed, 140Kt now vs 130Kt with the J I had. 

 

At my home airport, KRHV, if you have to do an approach you often get a request to keep the speed up on final in order to sequence in with the jets at nearby KSJC. This means keeping the gear up while on the GS. In the J I couldn't stay on the GS while simultaneously slowing enough for gear speed. I would have to level out a bit and go above the GS. With the Encore I can pop the brakes, reduce power, and when I drop below 140Kt, lower the gear, and stay on the GS the entire time. And you can do this while keeping the MP > 15 inches. Both the speed brakes and the higher gear speed work together to make this possible.

carusoam Grand Master

carusoam

Posted
Posted

Welcome aboard, new guys!  :)
 

+1 for speed brakes and more HP...

I have a tall Class B area to the East...

When going East, the extra HP is great for clearing the top of the Class B...

When coming back the brakes can be helpful for getting back down after crossing over the top of the Class B...

 

For the most part, the brakes are an excellent tool... for when needed... most people don’t need them very often...

Now... if you are trying to control your landing speed with precision... speed brakes are pretty good at using up some energy...

The brakes do lose there strength as the air speed decays...

 

Speed brakes are required for Long Bodies... not a requirement for other Mooneys...

 

PP thoughts only, not a CFI... or mechanic...

Best regards,

-a-

 

  • Like 1
HIghpockets Collaborator

HIghpockets

Posted
Posted

My J does not have speed brakes. I may not know what I am missing. I received excellent transition training in my airplane and find I can handle rapid descents and landings without speed brakes. If you find the right airplane without speed brakes I would not let it be a deal breaker.

  • Like 1
ArtVandelay Grand Master

ArtVandelay

Posted
Posted

In IMC I don’t like slipping the plane, tracking a course while slipping a plane in IMC seems a bit difficult for my level of experience. Speed brakes makes this trivial, as long as you’re not in icing conditions (something else I avoid).

Guillaume Collaborator

Guillaume

Posted
Posted
On 1/30/2021 at 4:21 PM, MooneyMark said:

I used the speedbrakes not that much on the 252, but every once in I while I was very happy to have them. 

Basically the same. I try not to use them but sometimes they are convenient when arriving too high (due to terrain or airspace / ATC restrictions).

jaylw314 Grand Master

jaylw314

Posted
Posted

Ironically, speedbrakes are probably less important on a J than older airframes since they have a higher V(le) than some of the older airframes.  With landing gear extended at 130 KIAS, you lose more than 2000 ft/min or about 1000 ft/nm.  The POH actually recommends that for rapid descents.  I don't know how much speedbrakes could add, I'm not sure my ears could take more than that anyway.

  • Like 1
carusoam Grand Master

carusoam

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, jaylw314 said:

Ironically, speedbrakes are probably less important on a J than older airframes since they have a higher V(le) than some of the older airframes.  With landing gear extended at 130 KIAS, you lose more than 2000 ft/min or about 1000 ft/nm.  The POH actually recommends that for rapid descents.  I don't know how much speedbrakes could add, I'm not sure my ears could take more than that anyway.


For E-descents...

Not a more efficient way to get to the ground....

  • Vlo (?) (Max gear extended speed)
  • brakes out
  • gear down
  • throttle out
  • prop in

Its an elevator ride...

You will be on the ground in minutes...

 

Talk about efficiency...   :)

PP thoughts only, not a CFI...

Best regards,

-a-

N201MKTurbo Grand Master

N201MKTurbo

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said:

Now they seem to use “delay vectors” to accomplish the same thing.

The only place it happens is going into Orange County. They bring you across Santiago Peak at 8000 and then clear you for the approach. You have about 10 miles to lose 8000 feet. When I tell them I can’t do that, they vector me over the top of the airport then north and back east to intercept the localizer.

  • 2 weeks later...
carusoam Grand Master

carusoam

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, skykrawler said:

huh?


Mooneys...

Go down, or slow down... take your pick...  oft said around here...

Can’t do both without the speed brakes...

Put out the brakes, drop the gear, pull the throttle, grab all the prop control.... you can descend and go sort of fast at Vle... while descending wildly... cylinder health is optional during E-descents...

:)
 

PP thoughts only, not a CFI...

Best regards,

-a-

Guest

Guest

Posted
Posted

I have speed brakes on my M20K.  Great for coming down without radical reduction in power.  Unexpected benefit is really smooth landings.  

skykrawler Proficient

skykrawler

Posted
Posted
On 2/14/2021 at 2:36 PM, carusoam said:


Mooneys...

Go down, or slow down... take your pick...  oft said around here...

Can’t do both without the speed brakes...

Put out the brakes, drop the gear, pull the throttle, grab all the prop control.... you can descend and go sort of fast at Vle... while descending wildly... cylinder health is optional during E-descents...

:)
 

PP thoughts only, not a CFI...

Best regards,

-a-

You must think me daft.  mk201turbo said " I can go fast, or I can descend fast, I can’t do both."    I have found it quite easy to do both.

 

  • Like 1

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