Insurance options

[warrenehc]

Hello MS,

I am the new owner (in escrow) of a 1967 Mooney M20F. I am in need of insurance and as we all do want the best rate. 
 

I am a 85hr. PP that got my wings a few months ago in a Cessna 150. The person that is going to be training me in the plane is a 500+ hour (in his Mooney) and over 2000+ hr CFII. 
 

I am looking for advice on insurance company’s to go with.

Thanks in advance.

 

[carusoam]

For the best discussion on insurance ask @Parker_Woodruff Parker is the Mooney guy with years of insurance experience...

Best regards,

-a-

[PT20J]

Except for Avemco, aviation insurance is sold through brokers. In theory, brokers all get the same quotes. The thing that sets a broker apart is the customer service and, in cases where a risk is a little tricky to insure, going to bat for you and helping put your best face forward. A lot of MSers have had good experience with @Parker_Woodruff.

Skip

[Raptor05121]

Best of luck to you. The insurance industry right now is not what we'd all call "reasonable", especially to newer/low-time pilots in complex airframes. Lots of guys getting dropped and some not even getting any conditional offers. But if anyone here can help, its Parker. Good luck and welcome to the forum

Edited January 7, 2021 by Raptor05121

[LANCECASPER]

1 hour ago, warrenehc said:

Hello MS,

I am the new owner (in escrow) of a 1967 Mooney M20F. I am in need of insurance and as we all do want the best rate. 
 

I am a 85hr. PP that got my wings a few months ago in a Cessna 150. The person that is going to be training me in the plane is a 500+ hour (in his Mooney) and over 2000+ hr CFII. 
 

I am looking for advice on insurance company’s to go with.

Thanks in advance.

 

Buying an airplane is an emotional decision but starting to check insurance rates after the purchase is in escrow is not a good plan.

[RobertGary1]

You just need a broker to quote the 6ish underwriters they exist. They all quote the same insurance companies so rates will be the same. I use southwest aviation insurance. 

[Hank]

1 hour ago, RobertGary1 said:

You just need a broker to quote the 6ish underwriters they exist. They all quote the same insurance companies so rates will be the same. I use southwest aviation insurance. 

Not in my experience.

[RobertGary1]

21 minutes ago, Hank said:

Not in my experience.

Unless you have an incompetent broker. But they are all using the quoting software for the same underwriters

[Mooneymite]

21 minutes ago, RobertGary1 said:

Unless you have an incompetent broker. But they are all using the quoting software for the same underwriters

Robert, what you say is true, but there is apparently a wide variety of ways to enter data for a quote request.  Make sure the broker you chose knows "all the details".  I got widely varying quotes for operation off of my turf airport because of the way the brokers entered information about my home field.  The one that got the best quote and has been my broker ever since took the time to understand the details of my airport;  apparently the others just entered "grass" which was accurate, but not complete.

[Ragsf15e]

21 hours ago, warrenehc said:

Hello MS,

I am the new owner (in escrow) of a 1967 Mooney M20F. I am in need of insurance and as we all do want the best rate. 
 

I am a 85hr. PP that got my wings a few months ago in a Cessna 150. The person that is going to be training me in the plane is a 500+ hour (in his Mooney) and over 2000+ hr CFII. 
 

I am looking for advice on insurance company’s to go with.

Thanks in advance.

 

Call Parker.  https://airspeedinsurance.com/about/
 

It’s gonna be tough to get and pricey based on your time.

[Hank]

@Parker_Woodruff

[Arnold D]

Hi Warrenehc

Please share with us the best quote you find, the insured value, and who you decided to buy from and why.

I recently purchased insurance for a 1966 M20E and was horrified at the increase in insurance over 3 years ago when I bought it for the 1st time.

(plane was in the hands of an A&P who worked at the pace of a snail)

During that time while my plane was being worked on and unflyable, insurance rates apparently sky-rocketed.  I even contemplated self insuring.

I was a student pilot with only 13hrs PIC when I first purchased insurance in 2017 for $1462 

3 years later with 95hrs PIC I got hammered for $5100

 

[carusoam]

Don’t calculate the price per hour...   (fair warning)

Talk to Parker to find out if there is something you could do differently...  like fly 100 hours a year to get your experience up before you get priced out of the market or something like that...

You might even save some dough by pursuing the IR...

 

The challenge with self insurance... it depends on who/what you hit... or how far out in the weeds you are when you have to retrieve the plane...

PP thoughts only, not an insurance guy...

Best regards,

-a-

[warrenehc]

Thank you all. For quick reference. My plane is to fly the pants off the plane to get to 500 as quick as I can to and add instrument and commercial. I was suggested to pay quarterly and keep telling what my current hours were because obviously the more hours I gain the lower the premium will be.

[carusoam]

Great plan!
 

Good luck with finding a quarterly option...

I’ve only seen whole years...   Which means you pay for this year, get the IR in ten days... and the price doesn’t change until next year...

More things to discuss with your insurance guy...

Best regards,

-a-

[warrenehc]

Avemco has that option.

[RobertGary1]

1 minute ago, warrenehc said:

Avemco has that option.

Will they rerate the policy each quarter through or is it just a payment option??

[tmo]

8 hours ago, carusoam said:

Don’t calculate the price per hour...   (fair warning)

A year has 8760=24*365 hours, just sayin' (I prefer to have the 1st hour of flying be really expensive, all the subsequent ones less so)

[warrenehc]

9 hours ago, RobertGary1 said:

Will they rerate the policy each quarter through or is it just a payment option??

They said they would rerate. I provide my current hours and they would move the price if I hear if I pass certain hour number. I do not know what those are.

[jwilcoxon78]

11 hours ago, carusoam said:

The challenge with self insurance... it depends on who/what you hit... or how far out in the weeds you are when you have to retrieve the plane...

-a-

The cost of defense the policy can provide is a huge component as well that is often overlooked.  

[RobertGary1]

36 minutes ago, jwilcoxon78 said:

The cost of defense the policy can provide is a huge component as well that is often overlooked.  

And things such a retrieval. You may be willing to walk away from your plane after an accident but then get a bill for pulling it out of a field. 

[MooneyMitch]

12 hours ago, Arnold D said:

Hi Warrenehc

Please share with us the best quote you find, the insured value, and who you decided to buy from and why.

I recently purchased insurance for a 1966 M20E and was horrified at the increase in insurance over 3 years ago when I bought it for the 1st time.

(plane was in the hands of an A&P who worked at the pace of a snail)

During that time while my plane was being worked on and unflyable, insurance rates apparently sky-rocketed.  I even contemplated self insuring.

I was a student pilot with only 13hrs PIC when I first purchased insurance in 2017 for $1462 

3 years later with 95hrs PIC I got hammered for $5100

 

My opinion....... per Parker’s recent post regarding 250% increases, and my take on all...... your old E model, my old D/C model and the like are being forced out of the insurance market due to exorbitant premium prices, thereby rendering our little old planes valueless, except maybe being liquidated for parts only.  

In other words, no one will be able to own one due to extreme insurance rates.  

Far reaching consequences for general aviation, including all businesse(s)that support us ! 

[Parker_Woodruff]

33 minutes ago, MooneyMitch said:

My opinion....... per Parker’s recent post regarding 250% increases,

Remember, that's just reinsurance... Very few risks hit reinsurance so it doesn't encompass the whole market

[MooneyMitch]

23 minutes ago, Parker_Woodruff said:

Remember, that's just reinsurance... Very few risks hit reinsurance so it doesn't encompass the whole market

Understand, but the trend is obviously substantially upwards...... to what degree? Time will tell. 

[MikeOH]

23 hours ago, 1980Mooney said:

And it depends on who flies with you...including extended family members who, in the event of an accident, (or surviving heirs) are just as likely to sue, demand compensation for medical expenses, loss of income, pain and suffering or worse.

EXACTLY!

Sadly, I only fly with immediate family for just this reason.  Look at your policy; most are only $100K sub-limits for passengers. IIRC, Avemco has only $100K limits for people ON THE GROUND, too!

Frankly, if the industry continues to jack up premiums, I'm going cancel hull coverage and risk eating the value of the plane.  I want the $1M liability coverage and, almost more importantly, the legal defense.  While it will suck to lose the plane, a PI lawsuit can do FAR more damage to my family's financial well-being.