Precision Avionics PIREP

[Davidv]

I just wanted to give everyone a quick pirep of Precision Avionics in Griffin, GA for anyone who is considering a minor or major avionics upgrade. For anyone who wants to the abridged version, they did an excellent job at a fair price and I would recommend Scotty Collins and his team to anyone (especially Brian, who worked on my plane and is now their Mooney expert).

For the last year I had been considering a pretty big upgrade since my early 1990s electronics were starting to go. I actually got my instrument rating in my aircraft with the old avionics which made it slightly more challenging.  My KG-258 would increasingly lean to the left during a flight, my turn coordinator was almost useless (the slightest bump would send it on a see-saw ride), the heading bug on my sandel was glitchy, my KAP-150 wouldn't fly approaches and liked to violently pitch up during climbs or descents in VS mode.  In short, my avionics were trying to kill me but fortunately I made it out alive (and passed my checkride). Enough about me.

My first quote with Scotty was for a 10" G3X, G5, GFC500.  I then looked at my panel and saw everything the G3X could do as well as my need for an engine monitor and caught a case of while-we're-at-it-itis.  My final build was a 10" G3X, 7" G3X (with engine monitor), G5, GFC500, GNC255A, GTR225, PMA450B, GDL51R XM receiver, and some Bose jacks.  I had previously installed a GNX375 which I kept to act as my transponder and IFR navigator. For anyone who doesn't know the G3X is also a backup VFR navigator. 

I dropped the plane off around October 1st and he quoted about 6 weeks.  It ended up taking 7.5 weeks to complete.  Given the major surgery and my knowledge of avionics jobs time overruns I thought this was very reasonable. The final result turned out great and Scotty even put up with me choosing the wrong color for my panel so he ordered the paint I wanted and cut a new panel to have it powder-coated (he cuts the panels in house).

If anyone else is familiar with avionics jobs, there is inevitably something that needs to be fixed or adjusted after the fact.  In my case, everything worked almost perfectly.  The only nits were my fuel pressure sensor reading about half of the old analog gauge and being able to change the comm and nav frequencies on my G3X (so I can tune the radios from the screen).  Long story short, there was a miscommunication with Garmin on some of the settings. Scotty wanted to make sure I was happy so he paid for my fuel to fly back to his shop to rewire the radios and G3X.  Brian took care of it in a few hours and now everything works as designed.

And I gained about 75 lbs of useful load.

Please don't hesitate to PM me if you have any questions. Before and after pics below along with one showing the wiring which I was pretty impressed with (I'm not an avionics expert).

[mike_elliott]

I think 70# of that gain was from the Sandel wiring and plunder

[Davidv]

18 minutes ago, mike_elliott said:

I think 70# of that gain was from the Sandel wiring and plunder

Haha, he said he filled two giant trash cans with nothing but wiring.  My two vacuum pumps probably helped too...

[mike_elliott]

30 minutes ago, Davidv said:

Haha, he said he filled two giant trash cans with nothing but wiring.  My two vacuum pumps probably helped too...

That electric standby is worth about the same as a bitcoin right now.

 

[GeeBee]

Nice job! Glad you had a good experience.  Georgia is getting some great avionics shops thanks to West Georgia College and the A&P program. Clayton State also has an excellent avionics program. There is a steady supply of A&P's ready to work. My friend's grandson is about to graduate. He has been interning at another shop in the area and they told him he has a full time job when he graduates. I don't know what will happen to the labor supply when Delta starts hiring again. Pre-Covid they were offering bounties and signing bonus' for A&Ps and if you had avionics certs, they doubled it.

 

[Amelia]

Oh? There are a&p s looking for work? Mine taught it at a local college, they all made bee lines for the majors. He, good man, is looking to hire.

[aviatoreb]

35 minutes ago, mike_elliott said:

That electric standby is worth about the same as a bitcoin right now.

 

I don't see it that way.  I have an electric backup attitude in my panel.  In two weeks I go in for a pair of GI275's, but besides replacing the KI256 and 525 HSI, I am keeping everything else in place exactly as it is, including the electric backup.  It will be less important than it was now with two lead ahars 275's in front of the line, instead of backup up a flakey vacuum system.  But nonetheless, its there, looks nice and well - yah never know.  I wouldn't go and install one at this stage, but its worth enough to me to not remove it and throw it in the garbage can.  OK all that - I would price it as 6 bitcoins.  Maybe 7.  who knows - maybe at some point if it goes belly up - if there is a cheap replacement on eBay, maybe I would even do so if its plug and play.

[Davidv]

12 minutes ago, aviatoreb said:

I don't see it that way.  I have an electric backup attitude in my panel.  In two weeks I go in for a pair of GI275's, but besides replacing the KI256 and 525 HSI, I am keeping everything else in place exactly as it is, including the electric backup.  It will be less important than it was now with two lead ahars 275's in front of the line, instead of backup up a flakey vacuum system.  But nonetheless, its there, looks nice and well - yah never know.  I wouldn't go and install one at this stage, but its worth enough to me to not remove it and throw it in the garbage can.  OK all that - I would price it as 6 bitcoins.  Maybe 7.  who knows - maybe at some point if it goes belly up - if there is a cheap replacement on eBay, maybe I would even do so if its plug and play.

It's funny, because I first read @mike_elliott's post as a negative to the electric backup, but then I remembered that bitcoin is currently trading for $22K.  Maybe he's saying the electric backup is worth much more ?

Based on Mike's guidance, I promptly changed the price on my ebay listing for my electric backup to $22K.

[mike_elliott]

A couple of years ago, I thought I had to have mine replaced when I got a call from DMAX who said it was bad and was a 2500 "experience" then. Fortunately, Don was wrong about it being bad and he called back later. I think he might have just been using a softening up tactic for the rest.....

 

[aviatoreb]

53 minutes ago, Davidv said:

It's funny, because I first read @mike_elliott's post as a negative to the electric backup, but then I remembered that bitcoin is currently trading for $22K.  Maybe he's saying the electric backup is worth much more ?

Based on Mike's guidance, I promptly changed the price on my ebay listing for my electric backup to $22K.

Hahah - I read it same as you.

So then by my charge, 7 bitcoins at 22k per bitcoin would be ...one expensive electric attitude indicator.  

I stand by my analysis of continued relevance of the old school electric backup attitude.  But my computation of cost is worthless, since like many math profs - I have yet again shown that I forgot how to work with units.

[Parker_Woodruff]

Nice panel.  This is very similar to what I'd want.

[GeeBee]

Based upon the cost of O/H and lifespan of electro/mechanical AI's you cannot justify them anymore.

 

[aviatoreb]

23 minutes ago, GeeBee said:

Based upon the cost of O/H and lifespan of electro/mechanical AI's you cannot justify them anymore.

 

I wouldn't buy a new one, given where we are today.

I see no reason in principle to remove a working one, just to put a black hole cover over the spot.

I suspect that lots of people are removing perfectly good working electric gyros when they may need the space for a complete panel redo, and they may be dumping that stuff at give-away prices.  In that market, I could see perhaps if my electric gyro goes belly up in a year or two or three, if the price is cheap enough, then getting someone else's seconds and plug and play drop it in.  If I am not in the mood to put something more modern.  But as I said, I am putting in two GI275's next week, and keeping my electric gyro so what to do with my electric gyro when it goes belly up is a different calculation than if I were keeping my vacuum system.

E

[rbridges]

How is it labelled?  Is it silkscreened?

[GeeBee]

4 hours ago, aviatoreb said:

I wouldn't buy a new one, given where we are today.

I see no reason in principle to remove a working one, just to put a black hole cover over the spot.

I suspect that lots of people are removing perfectly good working electric gyros when they may need the space for a complete panel redo, and they may be dumping that stuff at give-away prices.  In that market, I could see perhaps if my electric gyro goes belly up in a year or two or three, if the price is cheap enough, then getting someone else's seconds and plug and play drop it in.  If I am not in the mood to put something more modern.  But as I said, I am putting in two GI275's next week, and keeping my electric gyro so what to do with my electric gyro when it goes belly up is a different calculation than if I were keeping my vacuum system.

E

Figure the lifespan is about 1000 hours. They are 2600 dollars to O/H. That is 2.6 per hour. A new GI-275 can be had for 3200. Refurbish a GI-275 for 900 after a couple thousand hours? You really cannot afford to leave these things around and the number of people capable of working on them shrinks everyday. They are getting like wind up analog clocks. In my case the unit failed, so the GI-275 was a no brainer, but if it is past 2/3 of its life span, no brainer again.

 

[thomas1142]

Whole heartedly agree with the service receive from PA, they did my panel also.  I’ll be going back early next year to get the center stack worked on; GTN 750, GNC 255, and GMA 245R. 

[aviatoreb]

1 hour ago, GeeBee said:

Figure the lifespan is about 1000 hours. They are 2600 dollars to O/H. That is 2.6 per hour. A new GI-275 can be had for 3200. Refurbish a GI-275 for 900 after a couple thousand hours? You really cannot afford to leave these things around and the number of people capable of working on them shrinks everyday. They are getting like wind up analog clocks. In my case the unit failed, so the GI-275 was a no brainer, but if it is past 2/3 of its life span, no brainer again.

 

That wasn't my anaysis.  I am having two GI275's installed in 2 weeks.  There are two decisions I discussed.

1) Should I remove my working lifesaver now - which has about 1000hrs on it - and toss it into the trash bing or sell it for giveaway prices now?  I decide no.  I like it.  It looks nice.  It still has some value to just sit there. At essentially zero cost, that is my decision to not remove it.  I would not go buy one and install it fresh, but I will keep it.

2) Eventually it will go bad.  What to do then. Junk it?  Replace it with a third ahars type attitude indicator at a few thousand dollars?  Leave that hole blank since some say two attitude indicators (My dual GI275 I will soon have will be enough)?  I figure by then, they will practically be giving away electric mechanical life saver gyros on the used market.  I will make a guess - 3 or 4 hundred bucks in 2 or 3 or 5 years for a half life unit.  People will be taking that stuff out more and more soon and current.  And the used value is plummeting.  I'm certainly not going to overhaul it for 2600 as your analysis. And I am not installing a third ahars as goes your analysis.  I would either leave a blank hole, or replace it with a used unit.  Install is plug and play so call it 50 bucks.  Vs a fresh install of a 4.6k third GI275 plus labor?  I was pining that rather than leave a blank hold, I might well see if a used unit for that third unit might be nice.  We shall see when I get there.

[Ragsf15e]

16 hours ago, aviatoreb said:

That wasn't my anaysis.  I am having two GI275's installed in 2 weeks.  There are two decisions I discussed.

1) Should I remove my working lifesaver now - which has about 1000hrs on it - and toss it into the trash bing or sell it for giveaway prices now?  I decide no.  I like it.  It looks nice.  It still has some value to just sit there. At essentially zero cost, that is my decision to not remove it.  I would not go buy one and install it fresh, but I will keep it.

2) Eventually it will go bad.  What to do then. Junk it?  Replace it with a third ahars type attitude indicator at a few thousand dollars?  Leave that hole blank since some say two attitude indicators (My dual GI275 I will soon have will be enough)?  I figure by then, they will practically be giving away electric mechanical life saver gyros on the used market.  I will make a guess - 3 or 4 hundred bucks in 2 or 3 or 5 years for a half life unit.  People will be taking that stuff out more and more soon and current.  And the used value is plummeting.  I'm certainly not going to overhaul it for 2600 as your analysis. And I am not installing a third ahars as goes your analysis.  I would either leave a blank hole, or replace it with a used unit.  Install is plug and play so call it 50 bucks.  Vs a fresh install of a 4.6k third GI275 plus labor?  I was pining that rather than leave a blank hold, I might well see if a used unit for that third unit might be nice.  We shall see when I get there.

Not cheap, but when it fails you could put a 3rd gi275 in the hole as an mfd.  yes it’s small, but dedicated traffic might be nice? If you pay for the ahrs version it could be an mfd but still have selection as an adi.  And really, who wants a blank spot in their panel when there’s cool gadgets to put in?  It’s only money!

[Bravoman]

I get my Avionics work done there. It is a good shop. And they stay busy because they’re good. 

Real nice panel!

[laytonl]

I’ve used Precision for over thirty years.  Always good work.  We need to quit bragging on them though or they will get too busy for us!  Lee

[Davidv]

13 minutes ago, laytonl said:

I’ve used Precision for over thirty years.  Always good work.  We need to quit bragging on them though or they will get too busy for us!  Lee

Haha yes, Scotty said he was booked until March.  It wasn’t too bad of a wait for me, about 45 days from the time I sent them the deposit to dropping it off.