Cursed Dual Mag?

[toto]

  On 11/24/2020 at 7:52 PM, EricJ said:

Personally I don't think there's anything to be afraid about, like touch-n-goes.   There are some advantages to the dual mag, like better starting spark.   

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Yep.  There are few cases of a dual mag failing catastrophically, and to my knowledge most of those cases had to do with maintenance errors (e.g., no one torqued the bolts).

It's one of those things that could potentially fail, but it's probably not the thing that's going to kill us.

[toto]

  On 11/24/2020 at 4:28 AM, EricJ said:

Mine will be due for 500-hour inspection in about 30 hours.   Kelly Aerospace will do an overhaul on an exchange and I've been going to call them about their 500-hour service.  qaa.com is an alternative.

 

 

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I'm in the same boat, with less than a year's flying before hitting 500 hours.  The note I wrote myself last year says:  "Dual-mag overhaul: Select Aircraft @ Lancaster TX, technician Aaron."

That note was my conclusion after reading 239471289357218 messages on MooneySpace about mag overhaul shops.  I believe Select Aircraft is Don Maxwell's preferred overhauler.

[DonMuncy]

  On 11/24/2020 at 11:24 PM, toto said:

I'm in the same boat, with less than a year's flying before hitting 500 hours.  The note I wrote myself last year says:  "Dual-mag overhaul: Select Aircraft @ Lancaster TX, technician Aaron."

That note was my conclusion after reading 239471289357218 messages on MooneySpace about mag overhaul shops.  I believe Select Aircraft is Don Maxwell's preferred overhauler.

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It is my understanding that Aaron took a job somewhere and is no longer in business. Quite sad. I liked him and his work was high class.

[toto]

  On 11/24/2020 at 11:30 PM, DonMuncy said:

It is my understanding that Aaron took a job somewhere and is no longer in business. Quite sad. I liked him and his work was high class.

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Well, there goes that idea. Any idea who Maxwell uses now?

[Guest]

  On 11/24/2020 at 5:01 PM, toto said:

Interesting.  I completely misread their materials then.  So they are PMA approved for the case and for components, but technically the new Kelly case with the new Kelly components is still an overhauled Bendix mag?  (Are there any components of the original Bendix mag that Kelly can't produce under PMA?)

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Not unlike an exhaust system repair.  Send them a hole and they’ll build you a new exhaust system around it, but call it a repair.

Clarence

[Captnmack]

  On 11/24/2020 at 11:36 PM, toto said:

Well, there goes that idea. Any idea who Maxwell uses now?

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Aircraft Ignition Service is the new go to place. 903.378.7205.

[carusoam]

In case we are looking for the mag guy... Aircraft Ignition Service...

Add a pirep when able... 

(search tool note)

-a-

[rangermb]

Just to close the loop on this one...

Sent the mag to Kelly for evaluation. They found that the capacitors installed were an older type that should have been replaced with a new version. I'm not sure how the other unnamed shop that performed the previous overhauls missed that. Kelly also found that the gears were discolored and the block was cracked. So, no wonder i have been having issues.

[carusoam]

Great follow-up Ranger!

Put that in the holy cow OH category for an important part...

Thanks for sharing the details...

Looks like there are only a few good shops left for OH of Mags...

Best regards,

-a-

[toto]

  On 12/19/2020 at 6:16 PM, rangermb said:

Sent the mag to Kelly for evaluation.

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Out of curiosity, why did you decide to go with Kelly vs Aircraft Ignition Services?

[N201MKTurbo]

  On 12/19/2020 at 6:16 PM, rangermb said:

Just to close the loop on this one...

Sent the mag to Kelly for evaluation. They found that the capacitors installed were an older type that should have been replaced with a new version. I'm not sure how the other unnamed shop that performed the previous overhauls missed that. Kelly also found that the gears were discolored and the block was cracked. So, no wonder i have been having issues.

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The capacitors are not in the mag, they are in the cap (harness). It is always a good idea to send them off with the mag, so the mag can be run up with your caps.

[Unit74]

  On 12/19/2020 at 6:16 PM, rangermb said:

Just to close the loop on this one...

Sent the mag to Kelly for evaluation. They found that the capacitors installed were an older type that should have been replaced with a new version. I'm not sure how the other unnamed shop that performed the previous overhauls missed that. Kelly also found that the gears were discolored and the block was cracked. So, no wonder i have been having issues.

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I had the same issue recently. Mag had 100 hrs even on it and the points in the right side welded together. Went back to Kelley and they IRANed it N/C. The capacitor was replaced as we were told there was a service notice on them for being bad.   I also swapped out the ignition harness as well.  So far, 25 hours in, no issues.  If this thing craps again before 500, I'm gonna get the ElectroAir dual mag option. A boat load of money, but two electronic ignitions is equal to 4 standard D3000 mags, simply because the engine runs the same on one electronic mag vs two! Real redundancy if you asked me. Certainly enough to get your but out of a no-services field and to a shop if necessary.

[toto]

  On 12/20/2020 at 3:15 PM, Unit74 said:

I'm gonna get the ElectroAir dual mag option.

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Wait, is there an electronic dual-mag option for certified aircraft? Last I heard, this was stuck in certification hell for the foreseeable future. 

ETA: Just checked the Electroair website.. they're still saying this: 

"CERTIFIED AIRCRAFT: We have begun looking at engineering projects that will develop into replacement kits for certified aircraft using the Bendix Dual Magneto (D2000 & D3000 series). We will keep the website posted with progress reports as these projects develop. Unfortunately, our dual magneto solutions are limited to experimental aircraft at the moment."

[Unit74]

  On 12/20/2020 at 3:52 PM, toto said:

Wait, is there an electronic dual-mag option for certified aircraft? Last I heard, this was stuck in certification hell for the foreseeable future. 

ETA: Just checked the Electroair website.. they're still saying this: 

"CERTIFIED AIRCRAFT: We have begun looking at engineering projects that will develop into replacement kits for certified aircraft using the Bendix Dual Magneto (D2000 & D3000 series). We will keep the website posted with progress reports as these projects develop. Unfortunately, our dual magneto solutions are limited to experimental aircraft at the moment."

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The website is woefully behind. Here is a snip from some email traffic I have with them. I have also talked to their main distributor and we should be seeing it out very soon.

 

We have made quite a bit of progress on the replacement for the Bendix Dual Magneto.  Our solution will be a dual electronic ignition system that uses two separate trigger mechanisms, thereby completely separating the ignitions and solving one of the biggest problems with the dual magneto.  Our dual electronic ignition systems will require some sort of approved back-up power system (we will have recommendations the closer we get to certification).  We hope to have final certification completed sometime this fall.  While we have not finalized the pricing yet, our target user price for this kit is in the range of $4,800 (there will also be a $1,000 core charge refundable with the return of the removed dual magneto).  

 

[Yetti]

  On 11/24/2020 at 6:48 PM, N201MKTurbo said:

I’m thinking about buying the overhaul tools. They cost about $1000.  And building a test stand with the servo motor junk I have.  Maybe I’ll even talk to my friends at the FSDO about becoming a repair station. 

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Why repair station?  I thought As and Ps  could overhaul a mag.  And I ask because there is something fun about becoming an expert at something and just doing that one thing

[toto]

  On 12/20/2020 at 6:25 PM, Unit74 said:

The website is woefully behind. Here is a snip from some email traffic I have with them. I have also talked to their main distributor and we should be seeing it out very soon.

 

We have made quite a bit of progress on the replacement for the Bendix Dual Magneto.  Our solution will be a dual electronic ignition system that uses two separate trigger mechanisms, thereby completely separating the ignitions and solving one of the biggest problems with the dual magneto.  Our dual electronic ignition systems will require some sort of approved back-up power system (we will have recommendations the closer we get to certification).  We hope to have final certification completed sometime this fall.  While we have not finalized the pricing yet, our target user price for this kit is in the range of $4,800 (there will also be a $1,000 core charge refundable with the return of the removed dual magneto).  

 

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Cool, thanks for that. So "fall" means 2020? Hopefully something that could be purchased soon?

My dual mag will need a 500 hour sometime in the next 12 months, and having this as another option would be very nice. 

[N201MKTurbo]

  On 12/20/2020 at 6:28 PM, Yetti said:

Why repair station?  I thought As and Ps  could overhaul a mag.  And I ask because there is something fun about becoming an expert at something and just doing that one thing

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The only advantage would be letting minions work on stuff (Oh honey, have you finished that mag yet?) 

I had so much fun getting my progressive maintenance plan approved, I just thought I would give the bureaucracy another spin. 

[Unit74]

Yes, that email was in July.

[Yetti]

  On 12/20/2020 at 7:04 PM, N201MKTurbo said:

The only advantage would be letting minions work on stuff (Oh honey, have you finished that mag yet?) 

I had so much fun getting my progressive maintenance plan approved, I just thought I would give the bureaucracy another spin. 

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I wanted my buddy to go in halves on pitot test rig.   It probably would be break even to fly around and do tests but it would be fun in a furtherance of a business kind of way.

[N201MKTurbo]

  On 12/20/2020 at 8:52 PM, Yetti said:

I wanted my buddy to go in halves on pitot test rig.   It probably would be break even to fly around and do tests but it would be fun in a furtherance of a business kind of way.

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You would probably get more work than you could handle!

[rangermb]

  On 12/19/2020 at 6:50 PM, toto said:

Out of curiosity, why did you decide to go with Kelly vs Aircraft Ignition Services?

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I went with them because they actually manufacture new parts. They are also the supplier of remanufactured mags available frome places like Aircraft Spruce. After conversations with them I was convinced that they were the best bet to track down my issues.

[toto]

  On 1/1/2021 at 1:17 AM, rangermb said:

I went with them because they actually manufacture new parts. They are also the supplier of remanufactured mags available frome places like Aircraft Spruce. After conversations with them I was convinced that they were the best bet to track down my issues.

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Sounds good, thanks. I'll have this decision to make sometime in the next few months. I'm interested to see whether Electroair can get their dual mag solution certified by then, but I'm also not sure that I want to be a guinea pig.  

[201Steve]

Can someone advise the difference between the D2000 and the D3000, how I know which I have, and if there's a reason to upgrade if mine has a D2000?

[EricJ]

  On 1/24/2021 at 2:33 AM, 201Steve said:

Can someone advise the difference between the D2000 and the D3000, how I know which I have, and if there's a reason to upgrade if mine has a D2000?

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I'm not sure there are any/many D2000s left in the field.   They seemed to have been problematic and mostly replaced by D3000s.

 

[201Steve]

Eric, Kelly Aerospace lists a D2000 and a D3000 to purchase