M20F IFR power settings

[jaylw314]

23 minutes ago, eman1200 said:

Not according to some PoH’s



I mean, if you’re into those things.

I read that as talking about 4 separate things:

• Enroute climb (100-114 KIAS)
• Max rate climb (89-98 KIAS)
• Max angle climb (82 KIAS)
• Normal climb (2600 RPM/26" MAP)

[Owen M20F]

On 11/4/2020 at 7:00 AM, KB4 said:

For J, but just fill in for the E

	CONTROL			PERFORMANCE
	MP	RPM	AI	AIRSPEED	RATE OF CLIMB/DESCENT
CLIMB
Standard	26	26		110
Constant AS Vx	26	26	10⁰ - 12⁰	69	1200
Constant AS Vy	26	26	7⁰	88	1000
Constant Rate 500/min	26	26			500
S + L	MP	RPM	AI	AIRSPEED	RATE OF CLIMB/DESCENT
Cruise	25	25	Level	160
	23	23	Level	145
Approach at 90kts	12	23		90
DESCENT	MP	RPM	AI	AIRSPEED	RATE OF CLIMB/DESCENT
Constant AS	11	23	4.5⁰	100	500
Constant Rate	15	23		90	500
Cruise Descent	19	23	4.5⁰	148	500
PRECISION APP	11	23		90	500
NON-PRECISION APP					800

Mooney Power Settings .xlsx 11.48 kB · 10 downloads

The only issue with this is i have the rpm limitation on the F i can’t do a constant 2300 rpm i can do 2400-2700

[Shiny moose]

I think this is what your wanting

Go make your own is the easiest.  if its for IFR training make it simple, you dont want a lot of different airspeeds, 90kts/103mph is your friend for IFR training. Use it for all except cruising enroute to train. Keep it simple, dont be jamming in full power in for missed approach

go fly in the climb trim for 90KTS, dont touch your trim again, slowly pull power to levl your alt, note power setting, put gear down use power only to get -500( you wont need much if any ) , then -750, now level alt with gear down, now climb(to climb SLOWLY add A few inches above your 90KTlevel power setting and pull up gear all at 90 KTS ) , level at 90,  using the first power setting you found 90KT level power setting, write all down, add all configurations you want, if you use flaps you will have to retrim and your workload will increase, keep it simple, these are starting points, add configurations for your needs 

 

Speed  MP   RPM   flaps   gear   ROC/ROD 

90.                                                     00

90.                                                   -500

90.                                                   -750

90                                                    + whatever for MA climb

 

[tony]

On 11/4/2020 at 9:29 PM, VinceCB said:

For vintage Mooney flyers out there, do you approach with flaps?
Having recently bought my E I haven't yet had the chance to start experimenting but was wondering what to do about this since the flap operating speed is 100mph (86 kts). If you approach at 90kts to minimums on an ILS (200 AGL), is it difficult to dump the speed? Or do you simply fly the approach slower?

I configure my aircraft to be ready for a go around (50 percent flaps)    If I have to go around, I want to do as little work as possible.  Full throttle and pick up the gear.  

[midlifeflyer]

On 11/4/2020 at 1:36 PM, Hank said:

Wow! All of my Climbs are at 2700, and Descents are at the same RPM as used for cruise.

It's funny. When I do complex transition training, pilots are often concerned about the many potential prop settings. To KISS, I teach there are only 3 they actually need to use on any given flight. Full. Enroute climb (and some don't even change for that). Cruise.  The rest are just repeats of those three.

[M20F]

On 11/4/2020 at 9:40 PM, gsxrpilot said:

In my M20C I never used flaps on an instrument approach. You're guaranteed to have a longish runway and it's one less thing to do.

I like to have half flaps at IAF so the plane is configured to go around.   I tend to not go to full flaps if we are expecting to get to 200’ on the break out.  Still the same concept with the longish runway except I always make the assumption on an approach that I will always go missed and not land. 

[eman1200]

2 hours ago, M20F said:

I like to have half flaps at IAF so the plane is configured to go around.   I tend to not go to full flaps if we are expecting to get to 200’ on the break out.  Still the same concept with the longish runway except I always make the assumption on an approach that I will always go missed and not land. 

the IAF or the FAF?  the IAF seems like a looong way out to have any flaps out.

[Hank]

1 hour ago, eman1200 said:

the IAF or the FAF?  the IAF seems like a looong way out to have any flaps out.

I like to be near 105 mph with Takeoff flaps at the IAF. Works well. Whatever cruise RPM & EGT were.

[M20F]

2 hours ago, eman1200 said:

the IAF or the FAF?  the IAF seems like a looong way out to have any flaps out.

FAF, sorry bad typing.  Drop the gear and flaps right before FAF and it rides the G/S down with a little trim.  

[eman1200]

FAF, sorry bad typing.  Drop the gear and flaps right before FAF and it rides the G/S down with a little trim.  

Yep, that makes more sense, thanks. Now if we can just get Hank some instrument training….

[Hank]

21 minutes ago, eman1200 said:

Yep, that makes more sense, thanks. Now if we can just get Hank some instrument training….

Hank slows to 90 knots /105 mph around the IAF, and puts out Takeoff flaps. When the glideslope needle is 1-1/2 dots Hugh, I drop gear and ride the slope down with minimal changes. Works well for me.

Depending on the situation, I can go faster but still back off and slow down by FAF. Too hard trying to slow down during descent, not something I want to mess with in IMC. Be slow, have flaps out, dropping gear starts descent.

Sorry for those of you with low flap speeds. Vfo = 125 mph; Vg = 120 mph. This process works well.

[M20F]

8 hours ago, Hank said:

Hank slows to 90 knots /105 mph around the IAF, and puts out Takeoff flaps. When the glideslope needle is 1-1/2 dots Hugh, I drop gear and ride the slope down with minimal changes. Works well for me.

Depending on the situation, I can go faster but still back off and slow down by FAF. Too hard trying to slow down during descent, not something I want to mess with in IMC. Be slow, have flaps out, dropping gear starts descent.

Sorry for those of you with low flap speeds. Vfo = 125 mph; Vg = 120 mph. This process works well.

Generally the step down from IAF to FAF is not that much to be an issue.  Flying around very slow straight and level in the clouds for often 5-10 NM from IAF to the FAF increases the chances of an inadvertent stall.  With no gear to get 90KTS you need a very high nose pitch.  With gear out then it is still a high pitch but now with a lot of power (which leads to CHT issues).  Given you are more than likely going to have wind on the nose in an approach, you are looking 8-10 minutes in this configuration. 
 
I think (and in fairness my opinion) slowly working the power back a bit prior to IAF to hit 120 about a mile from FAF is a better solution.  Then dump the gear, hold it level, get to flap speed, and dump to half flaps right before IAF (or in your case flop gear/flaps).   
 
Personally I do not like to be on the bottom half of the white arc with the nose pointed anywhere but down.  Especially in IMC. 

[TCSMOORE]

M20F performance numbers please

Here is a Google Sheets editable link https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1QBrUp6av3abXrmvp4r-drpY5Ab02Cow4FrZ38M9POus/edit

I am flying an Australian 1998 M20F Ovation VH-OID and would love someone to edit this sheet with the appropriate numbers as related to an M20F

Kind regards

Tim

 

[midlifeflyer]

On 11/4/2020 at 6:05 PM, Marauder said:

1975 F


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

Nice. What I like best is that it's short. The problem I see with many is that they have too much. Owners tend to memorize them eventually but those of us who fly multiple makes and models use them all the time in flight as a reference. That means finding things at a glance. Some I've seen makes that impossible.

I don't have one for an F but all of mine only have five entries - all approach related: 

• Vectoring (not just for vectoring. A step-down speed once in the approach environment. I started doing that when I learned to fly a J. It became essential in an Ovation :D)
• Approach Level
• APV Descent
• MDA Descent (any approach that does not have vertical guidance)
• MDA Level

I discovered fairly quickly that the others were just basic checklist items whether VFR or IFR or non-critical. Everyone needs to decide on what they need as a reference but, like checklists, I think ergonomics/usability is more important than extreme detail.

[jetdriven]

On 11/3/2020 at 10:37 PM, Owen M20F said:

Anyone have a chart for Power settings for instrument approaches and what not? I’m a new owner and am about to start instrument training in it and thing this info would be very helpful. Thanks

Instrument training is easy. leave the prop at 2500 RPM, and use the throttle like a 172, power for airspeed. pull the mixture back 1/3rd.  Spend your time on instrument flying.

[RoundTwo]

16 minutes ago, jetdriven said:

Instrument training is easy. leave the prop at 2500 RPM, and use the throttle like a 172, power for airspeed. pull the mixture back 1/3rd.  Spend your time on instrument flying.

Party pooper. 

[jetdriven]

let me revise that. Instrument training is quite intense and can be difficult, but the engine part is easy. Just park it at 20-23" for the terminal area, and its less than that during the approach.

[Pinecone]

On 11/5/2020 at 12:49 PM, M20F said:

The charts are +/- 3% out of the gate, I don’t think @ 5 HP is going make much of a difference.  To each their own but I don’t see the difference.

That difference is 6.5%, which on a 180 HP engine is almost 12 HP.

10 extra HP on a 252 is part of making it an Encore and 230 high gross weigh.

[Pinecone]

On 11/5/2020 at 7:13 PM, eman1200 said:

Not according to some PoH’s



I mean, if you’re into those things.

That is talking about a normal climb after you get some altitude, not a Vx or Vy climb due to obstacles or climb gradients.

And reduced power climbs were the normal back when that POH was written, but current practice is full power climbs to altitude. 

[eman1200]

That is talking about a normal climb after you get some altitude, not a Vx or Vy climb due to obstacles or climb gradients.
And reduced power climbs were the normal back when that POH was written, but current practice is full power climbs to altitude. 

Maybe YOUR current practice.

[Hank]

15 minutes ago, eman1200 said:

Maybe YOUR current practice.

It's current practice for many of us. Starting with the mighty 172 as a student, and the last 15 years as a Mooney owner.

Like all generalities, it does not apply to everyone. 

[midlifeflyer]

On 11/4/2020 at 9:29 PM, VinceCB said:

For vintage Mooney flyers out there, do you approach with flaps?
Having recently bought my E I haven't yet had the chance to start experimenting but was wondering what to do about this since the flap operating speed is 100mph (86 kts). If you approach at 90kts to minimums on an ILS (200 AGL), is it difficult to dump the speed? Or do you simply fly the approach slower?

I don't. For me, it's not even  matter of a low Vfe. It started when my CFII failed trying to get me to use them in a C172 during my training. I use approach flaps   in 4-5 of the 30 or so make/models of singlesI've flown. Mooney Js (sometimes) and Rs, Cessna 182 RGs (the approach flap speed is 140 KIAS), and Cirrus SR22 and 20.  

[mike_elliott]

my recommendation wouild be approach (TO) flaps at glide slope intercept along with gear down. With correct PAC setting, this shouldnt require much if any retrim for a 3 Deg 600'/min decent. Full flaps after you break out and will land. YMMV, but this works well in Mooneys, 

[midlifeflyer]

10 minutes ago, mike_elliott said:

my recommendation wouild be approach (TO) flaps at glide slope intercept along with gear down. With correct PAC setting, this shouldnt require much if any retrim for a 3 Deg 600'/min decent. Full flaps after you break out and will land. YMMV, but this works well in Mooneys, Dont know about all those others Mark has flown.

In all of them, there are those who insist on approach flaps. Strictly a matter of technique. Since I don't do primary instrument training, when a pilot flies with me they already have their system. If it's a transition from fixed to retractable gear and they've already developed a preference, I won't mess with it (First Commandment of Flight Instructing).   

You will get exactly the same effect you describe without flaps.  If you are already at target speed, putting the gear down with no flaps will result in a 3° glidepath with no change in IAS and no need to retrim.  I was surprised that most every retract I flew behaved the same way. 

[mike_elliott]

For me, its not a matter of insisting on approach flaps, it is a matter of developing in a new instrument student good habits, and proper configuration for the phase of flight. As one moves up to bigger equipment, this becomes more and more critical with less wiggle room, so we try to start new IR clients off with structure and regimentation here.