aviatoreb Posted January 16, 2021 Report Posted January 16, 2021 48 minutes ago, M20Doc said: Are we talking about saving Mooney as a company, or building cool niche airplanes? Mooney needs to produce an easy (low cost to build) airframe, that weighs less, lifts more and has the creature comforts and safety features people want and is affordable to own and maintain. While a Jet A burning diesel sounds cool,they're heavy and usually require liquid cooling which adds more to the complexity and empty weight. A Lycoming engine that can burn premium auto fuel makes just as much sense. Clarence The discussion over in diesel forums is that a diesel engine is a big deal in parts of the world where avgas is either shockingly expensive or simply unavailable. 2 Quote
exM20K Posted January 16, 2021 Report Posted January 16, 2021 18 minutes ago, aviatoreb said: The discussion over in diesel forums is that a diesel engine is a big deal in parts of the world where avgas is either shockingly expensive or simply unavailable. And in those places, often the economics and airspace for pro-pilot training favor shipping the trainees to the USA. 1 Quote
aviatoreb Posted January 16, 2021 Report Posted January 16, 2021 48 minutes ago, exM20K said: And in those places, often the economics and airspace for pro-pilot training favor shipping the trainees to the USA. Europe is a place where avgas is crazy expensive. There are people in Europe who like single engine owner-planes vs single engine trainer planes. A few of them are members here on Mooney space. I would think that in Europe, diesel, even though more expensive hull value, would be very competitive vs avgas burners because of the significant difference in fuel costs. I am not talking COBs such as myself who buy 30 year old used airplanes but we are taking people who can buy new airplanes. That Diamond DA50 diesel looks interesting and a strong competitor in this category. A lycoming mogas burner sounds very interesting, but we aren't talking car gas are we - mogas is the no ethanol stuff that is pretty rare really. An airplane that could fly on car gas in the usa would be really neat but then are we in practice talking about tinkering 100 gallons ourselves from the local citgo to the airport to fill up? And then what of when on travel - all you can find is avgas on the go. So for the time being it wouldn't make a big difference, but clearly it is an interesting feature and would be a big deal if and when avgas goes away. There actually is a no-ethanal car premium 91 octane car gas station pump nearby here. I suppose if I had an airplane that could burn it, I would be lying that stuff and tinkering it 3 miles to the airport. I think its something like $2.5? It would be more fun to taxi the airplane down Main Street right up to the pump and ask for full service. Check the oil and clean the windows please. Anyway I do think a diesel option would be unique and a mostly unfilled niche. There is only the DA50 as a competitor and still it is a somewhat different airplane in the high performance single category - it is slower and a "sort of" 6 (or was it 5?) seater/. But it is nice. Quote
irishpilot Posted January 16, 2021 Report Posted January 16, 2021 IMHO, GA is a market that is saturated with several manufactures all with a high barrier to entry. That barrier is training and aircraft cost. The reason Cirrus is selling well is twofold: 1) the advertised safety benefit of BRS and 2) the safety culture Cirrus built. Cirrus offers new and pre-owned owner training as part of the purchase. They control the training CFIs get to call themselves CSIPs, and they have a very active Cirrus culture. Prior to the new ownership, Mooney was not available, nor part of cultivating a Mooney safety and/or lifestyle culture. A booth at an Airshow is primarily for targeting new owners, and in today's day of social media, I don't think that is really an effective outreach strategy. Shunning the vast majority of Mooney owners (ones who own older models) is a great way to push them to other brands when they are ready to upgrade to a newer airframe. Bottom line: 4-seat single engine piston aircraft are luxury items for the vast majority of owners. Sure we justify the cost with things like, "I don't need to go through TA, or I want the flexibility in travel, etc." So what draws in someone to spend between $600-900k for a plane? Simply put: lifestyle. Manufactures that make a desirable product, target advertising to their demographic, and give owners a sense of belonging do well. With all that said, this is a new plane - new day with Mooney. My hat's off to Jonny and team for their outreach on MS. My humble recommendation going forward: Rebrand with one or two models that have something that older Mooney's do not. Things like more automation, safety features, speed, or efficiency. As part of that rebranding - tie the current Mooney owners to the Brand and culture. Sort of like Telsa, most of us our Mooneyiacs and we'll help spread #Mooneylife (BTW - that hashtag currently isn't even a thing). Just my humble thoughts as a two-time Mooney owner ('65E, '00 Bravo). Quote
daytonabch04 Posted January 22, 2021 Report Posted January 22, 2021 Looks like Jonny hit 290kts in his M20T this morning! Cruising along! https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N705SE/history/20210122/1400Z/KERV/KDRP Quote
Tim Jodice Posted January 22, 2021 Report Posted January 22, 2021 2 hours ago, daytonabch04 said: Looks like Jonny hit 290kts in his M20T this morning! Cruising along! https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N705SE/history/20210122/1400Z/KERV/KDRP 290, he broke 300! 2 Quote
Danb Posted January 22, 2021 Report Posted January 22, 2021 I thought flightaware was in mph on the map display and knots and mph on the graph? 300 mpg is about 255 knots still fast Quote
Niko182 Posted January 22, 2021 Report Posted January 22, 2021 3 minutes ago, Danb said: I thought flightaware was in mph on the map display and knots and mph on the graph? 300 mpg is about 255 knots still fast Click on the link above and look at his most recent flight. I saw 352mph. Quote
Tim Jodice Posted January 22, 2021 Report Posted January 22, 2021 You have fans! @Jonny Serious question for all. When was the last time the CEO of Mooney used his own Mooney to literally go across the country? Thats some great advertising. 5 Quote
MooneyMitch Posted January 22, 2021 Report Posted January 22, 2021 13 minutes ago, Tim Jodice said: You have fans! @Jonny Serious question for all. When was the last time the CEO of Mooney used his own Mooney to literally go across the country? Thats some great advertising. And there ya have it! Go Jonny, go! Go Mooney, go ! 1 Quote
Danb Posted January 22, 2021 Report Posted January 22, 2021 1 hour ago, Niko182 said: Click on the link above and look at his most recent flight. I saw 352mph. That’s kicking 2 Quote
Danb Posted January 22, 2021 Report Posted January 22, 2021 Smooth 100 knot winds at 24,000, be tough going SE Quote
carusoam Posted January 22, 2021 Report Posted January 22, 2021 Indy speeds represent the fastest speeds an ordinary person can travel a long distance... Indy cars average around 220mph around the 2.5 mile track... They have peak speeds of around 240mph on the back straight... And have to stop a few times to get fuel and tires to complete a 500 mile journey... Support to do all that requires a team of dozens of people... The fuel used is somewhat specialized, not available everywhere... In the end, they have traveled 500mi, and ended up exactly where they started... Putting the vehicle away will take a bunch of man hours to clean up and get set up for it’s next use... Compare that to the accomplishments of this single flight... Nearly 1000 miles... in about 3:20 of time... Nice tail wind to sort of help out... There aren’t 500k people sitting in the stands watching... No television cameras, or interviews going on... Not a single tire getting changed.... Fill her up, pre-flight check, repeat... Just a man and a machine... gone modern day sailing.... Wonder if he had lunch, or brought a friend along for the ride...? (Try that in an Indy cockpit...) Modern day sailor... Modern day Victor Kayam... Who liked his Remington shaver so much, he bought the company... (aka Shaver Stadium, before... Schaefer, After... Gillette) There are other faster race cars... that approach this speed... in a perfect straight line, but, for only a quarter of a mile... the cockpit is so tight, not even a water bottle fits inside... their top speed is only measured for a short distance... Go Jonny Go! Best regards, -a- Quote
Nick Pilotte Posted January 22, 2021 Report Posted January 22, 2021 I once had a girl I was seeing accuse me of being at a “Gentleman’s establishment” one night because her friend saw my car parked there. Unfortunately I drove a silver Mercedes and they made more than a couple of those. And my car was at my shop because I drove a customer’s car home to put miles on for QC (his idea). Imagine how much less frustrating that call would have been if we had “CarAware” and not just FlightAware. Though that could be equally incriminating....... thankfully the car was around for A LOT longer than that mistake. Poor Jonny, everybody here knows he made it in time for dinner. 1 Quote
squeaky.stow Posted January 22, 2021 Report Posted January 22, 2021 Question/suggestion for @Jonny I know that the focus is on MGTOW increases for long bodies, but what is the possibility of a, shall we say, “Encore Lite” upgrade for the K models? The full Encore conversion for my 252 gets me an extra 230 lbs of GW in return for an expensive modification to get 10 more HP, dual puck brakes (and expensive new doors gear doors to accommodate them) and new flight control balance weights. How about a mod that gives me the extra GW while accepting slightly reduced TO, Climb and Landing performance by keeping the existing engine and brakes? So just new counterweights to handle the higher GW and new performance tables to reflect the higher GW with the same 210 HP and single puck brakes? The ASI would still have to be re-marked to reflect the new stall speed but the expensive engine and gear mods could be avoided. And thanks for your active presence on this forum. Regards, Mark Quote
Guest Posted January 23, 2021 Report Posted January 23, 2021 1 hour ago, squeaky.stow said: Question/suggestion for @Jonny I know that the focus is on MGTOW increases for long bodies, but what is the possibility of a, shall we say, “Encore Lite” upgrade for the K models? The full Encore conversion for my 252 gets me an extra 230 lbs of GW in return for an expensive modification to get 10 more HP, dual puck brakes (and expensive new doors gear doors to accommodate them) and new flight control balance weights. How about a mod that gives me the extra GW while accepting slightly reduced TO, Climb and Landing performance by keeping the existing engine and brakes? So just new counterweights to handle the higher GW and new performance tables to reflect the higher GW with the same 210 HP and single puck brakes? The ASI would still have to be re-marked to reflect the new stall speed but the expensive engine and gear mods could be avoided. And thanks for your active presence on this forum. Regards, Mark Early Bravos had single piston brake calipers at a higher gross weight. Clarence Quote
Jonny Posted March 6, 2021 Report Posted March 6, 2021 Hey Folks - Been off of here for a while dealing with the ice storm in Texas and plans for a new version of the Ultra. The factory took a hit but we're back up and running. No Back Springs came in last week so those of you who were grounded are hopefully up and running again - we are on order for more. Also, wanted to alert everyone that we're selling N197CV, the Ultra Ovation Prototype. It's a beautiful plane, only has 300 Hrs, will have a 1 year tip to tail warranty and I just put new seats in it. Also, it's NXi Phase II! If you're interested, hop onto the Mooney website and have a look - it's listed under New Factory Sales. Hope you're all safe and well! Jonny 2 1 Quote
toto Posted March 6, 2021 Report Posted March 6, 2021 Welcome back, Jonny! Glad to hear the factory is back to 100%. Hopefully 197CV can find a home among the MS faithful Quote
carusoam Posted March 6, 2021 Report Posted March 6, 2021 Happy Saturday, Jonny! Always good to hear from you and the Mooney team. Best regards, -a- Quote
Boilermonkey Posted March 6, 2021 Report Posted March 6, 2021 Geeze Johnny, you guys have weathered a lot of storms lately. I hope the weather gives you tailwinds in the future. Quote
201Steve Posted June 15, 2021 Report Posted June 15, 2021 I was just browsing the site for tips on a J model ram air removal, which reminded me of a potential carbon fiber design being discussed by the factory... Which led me onto the Mooney website for updates on it , seems it’s still been left pretty much untouched since the late 2020 push. We had a brief check in from @Jonnya few months ago... Is he waiting on Oshkosh to reveal the next Mooney coffee mug to be added to the website...? Just teasin Jonny, sorta. 2 Quote
ZuluZulu Posted August 3, 2021 Report Posted August 3, 2021 On 3/6/2021 at 8:17 AM, Jonny said: Hey Folks - Been off of here for a while dealing with the ice storm in Texas and plans for a new version of the Ultra. The factory took a hit but we're back up and running. No Back Springs came in last week so those of you who were grounded are hopefully up and running again - we are on order for more. Also, wanted to alert everyone that we're selling N197CV, the Ultra Ovation Prototype. It's a beautiful plane, only has 300 Hrs, will have a 1 year tip to tail warranty and I just put new seats in it. Also, it's NXi Phase II! If you're interested, hop onto the Mooney website and have a look - it's listed under New Factory Sales. Hope you're all safe and well! Jonny Been a while since we heard anything out of Kerrville... or is it just me? 2 Quote
LANCECASPER Posted August 3, 2021 Report Posted August 3, 2021 Timing has been bad for Mooney. They poured a lot of money in from 2013 - 2015 and then announced the Ultra but didn't have it certified which stopped new sales for almost two years. It took longer than thought to get certified and they started started selling a few. but didn't sell a lot of airplanes, pouring a lot more money into it from 2015 - 2019. Production stopped and now people are waiting in line to buy new airplanes right now from the few general aviation manufacturers out there . . . . yet there are no new Mooneys being made. From what I understand, Autoland was already under development but suspended. The people who live in Kerrville that know how to make these are rapidly aging and leaving the workforce . . . if there is to be a Mooney Airplane Company sometime soon they need to start building and selling airplanes . . . or just re-name it Mooney Airplane Parts Company. Quote
Greg Ellis Posted August 3, 2021 Report Posted August 3, 2021 I understand that Mooney is going through rough times. And these may be times they just can't recover from. I am grateful that they are producing parts especially for these older airplanes. It was a little bit of a kick in the gut to be at Oshkosh and see the various airplane manufacturers with huge displays and presence and the only Mooney presence was in the North 40 at the caravan tent. Cirrus had nearly a full block at Oshkosh and they were packed with visitors. Music playing loud enough so you wondered where it was coming from when you were walking nearby. They had quite a few brand new aircraft on display and really put on a show. Now, not sure if any of that extravagance turns into sales but you can't sell a plane if you don't market the plane. And they know how to market a plane. I am not trying to start yet another Mooney vs. Cirrus discussion, That horse has been beaten to death. It was just a little sad to not see a Mooney display. I am thankful to all of those that keep our old aircraft flying. Some of you are on this forum and I appreciate you very much. I would call you out by name and thank you but the list would be long and I may miss someone. So thanks to all on this forum that provide advice, and help keep our fleet in the air. 5 Quote
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.