Mooney Factory Update

[gsengle]

it's not misleading anything, it's a simple question.  mooneyspace isn't the entire target market, but it's the one I'm asking.

Mooney has to sell to people who aren’t this group. Not only aren’t we the entire target market, we are hopefully only a small part... useful load plus chute plus maybe autoland and maybe a wider cabin can level the playing field. Chute is a must.


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[Andy95W]

4 hours ago, Hyett6420 said:

Thats an easy one.  “Madam Volvo invented the steel safety cage, and the seatbelt and you know how safe Volvos are.  As you can see we are the ONLY aircraft manufacturer to have a steel safety cage in our aircraft.  Most accidents happen below 800 feet where a parachute is useless, but a steel safety cage will save your life.  Our safety belts also have integrated airbags, Mooney is all about safety.  

Plane sold.  

Wife replies, "I want the one with the parachute or I'm never going flying with you."

Cirrus gets another sale.

(I completely and rationally agree with your assessment of the Mooney, just not of the wife- who may be driven by something other than reason.)

[aviatoreb]

29 minutes ago, eman1200 said:

after a quick scan of this thread, here's a brief summary:

• mooney doing 'stuff'
• tesla bad
• no tesla good
• news flash: africa is a continent
• jetpacks > mooneys
• crocodiles are scary
• the old chute vs twin autoland debate

 

no matter what mooney does in the future, is there anyone here on mooneyspace who's in the market for a new plane?  any NEW plane?  anyone?  just curious.

 

lean of peak.

[chinoguym20]

This is great news for the Kerrville employees (and hopefully future employees).  As we all know, it’s a very tall order, but hopefully the new owners have deep enough pockets for the investment needed and can make a positive return on their investment one day.  I wonder if they will work on an entry level like the M10?

[mike_elliott]

2 hours ago, Igor_U said:

Mike,

That's interesting. Could share what the time frame when we can expect the announcement, photos? We are talking now about all new landing gear design. I suspect FAA approval might take a while (2nd door took a long time) but could it be they can use landing gear similar to M22? After all, wings are "the same"... 

I am sure Mooney will be announcing the time frames soon, and lets just say your long body or mid body with inner gear doors might be sitting a bit higher now with the GW increased hardware.

[Missile=Awesome]

4 hours ago, aviatoreb said:

Regenerative braking is nice.  But only lefties recapture energy.

Can you put regenerative braking on a cirrus and skip the parachute?

I am going to need a parachute to get through this afternoon - which is what I am doing on here at the moment - procrastinating.

Your condescending trolling is the definition of elitist b.s. fyi...Congrats on that.

[aviatoreb]

26 minutes ago, Missile=Awesome said:

Your condescending trolling is the definition of elitist b.s. fyi...Congrats on that.

If you live in a world where everything is a fight then you see a fight.

Im being goofy and you see elitist bs.  There are some long running silliness on here like the long recurring parachute threads.  So imagine like a drinking game where someone says parachute and everyone has to take a swig then reread in that spirit.  I’m sorry you don’t have a place for silly and I’m sorry it offends you.

Edited September 2, 2020 by aviatoreb

[aviatoreb]

41 minutes ago, mike_elliott said:

I am sure Mooney will be announcing the time frames soon, and lets just say your long body or mid body with inner gear doors might be sitting a bit higher now with the GW increased hardware.

You think there may be ugrade stc’s coming for us?

Edited September 2, 2020 by aviatoreb

[kortopates]

Just now, aviatoreb said:

You think there may be ugrade stc’s coming for us?

Small point but the never the less,  the factory won't need an STC, just a Mooney drawing. Only a 3rd party like Rocket needs a STC. 

[aviatoreb]

Just now, kortopates said:

Small point but the never the less,  the factory won't need an STC, just a Mooney drawing. Only a 3rd party like Rocket needs a STC. 

True - I don’t know process.

but would some of these upgrades be available to us old machine jockeys?  Perhaps installed at the factory?

[exM20K]

10 hours ago, mike_elliott said:

All new, no more disks. I have photos, but they are not for me to share publically. The upgrade I am sure will not be inexpensive, but will be the #1 upgrade on everyones list that have inner gear doors.

Count me in

-dan

[kortopates]

Just now, aviatoreb said:

True - I don’t know process.

but would some of these upgrades be available to us old machine jockeys?  Perhaps installed at the factory?

Absolutely, but only if Mooney provides a retrofit drawing and an update to the TCDS - which is something they have done many times and continue to do.

Without a manufacturer retrofit drawing, any mod from the the TCDS requires a 337 with a field approval - unless it's considered a minor mod. A Mooney drawing doesn't even need a 337.

[aviatoreb]

10 minutes ago, kortopates said:

Absolutely, but only if Mooney provides a retrofit drawing and an update to the TCDS - which is something they have done many times and continue to do.

Without a manufacturer retrofit drawing, any mod from the the TCDS requires a 337 with a field approval - unless it's considered a minor mod. A Mooney drawing doesn't even need a 337.

Holy Moly!

[bradp]

10 hours ago, mike_elliott said:

riddle me this...why did it take less than 3000 hrs to build a K and Bravo under Bob K's tutleage and it now takes close to 9K hrs? The  avionics have to be less labor intense being integrated. the composites cannot add 6K of man hrs to the plane. The fully loaded labor cost is much higher than 30/hr on top of that. Cost obviously has to be addressed, and certainly can be with the right workforce and team. Putting go pro camera's on workers wasnt the answer as Mejeing found out. Perhaps a culture of the skilled labor needs to be addressed where an honest days pay for an honest days work with less QA issues (paint has been huge here) and can be  solved with the right management team.

Liability probably accounts for a big chunk of the overhead 

[bradp]

For @Raptor05121 come up to NC for some river gators. 
 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wect.com/2020/07/13/kayaker-has-close-encounter-with-an-alligator-waccamaw-river/%3foutputType=amp

 

I’m glad to see that the business plan is parts / retrofit / rework and then think about new planes.  Seems to be the only logical way forward. 

[Ario]

4 hours ago, aviatoreb said:

I used to own a Diamond Da40.  I liked it a lot.  Actually I liked something a lot about just about every airplane I have ever been in, but I have not liked everything better about every plane.

DA40 is a good balance between forgiving plane suitable for primary training and still a decent cross country machine with decent speed.  Mine went 145tas on an IO360.

The DA40 was a very nice handling airplane from the stand point of it did have good road feel, but not as good as the Mooney since I considered it too twitchy so tiresome to hand fly cross country,  more like a dune buggy ride vs the Mooney audi stable type ride.  I also loved the center stick of the DA40 but I also hated it since I found it much more difficult to accurately separate the two axis of control when doing a cross controlled landing in cross winds.  I found the seating to be very very incomfortable.  Hard seats at a fixed angle that would make my back hurt over flights more than an hour and I have seen others complain of that over on diamondaviators.net  - and for a tall person, it just does not have enough leg room so a three hour flight left me like a pretzel. Egress is fantastic in the DA40 with those great gull doors.  Fit and finish is like the cirrus but better in terms of perfect lines.  They were absolutely the worst company in the business in terms of supporting their customers.  For that reason alone I would never buy another Diamond product.  I have seen comparable complaints over on diamondaviators.  They do have excellent products.  Oh and the DA40 has the best safety stats in the business with or without a parachute.  The DA50 looks great but for the company I wouldn't go near it.  And for that much money if I were spending I would buy something turbine.

Like I said, every airplane I have been in I have loved and some things I haven't about them.  Mooney is the one I have chosen for my own quirky likes and dislikes is just right for me for over ten years now, and for the foreseeable future.

Thanks for the quick comparison. Given you can get a reasonable DA40 for ~220K, with Garmin glass panel, it's interesting. But in that range, you can probably get a Bravo or an Ovation.  

[aviatoreb]

36 minutes ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

@Missile=Awesome, you clearly don’t know @aviatoreb.   Yes, he probably swings a little left of center, but he is about as tolerant of other views as is anybody, and would pretty much be the last one in the room to ever pick a fight or intentionally offend anyone. 
 

OK.  We’re all friends again now.   Nothing to see here.  
 

Jim

Thank you Jim.  That was very kind.  I try (not always successfully but I do actively try) to come here with any version of that right-left dichotomy.  I’m here talk about airplanes  - and jet packs, parachutes, fishing, scotch, cars, camping. Sometimes Silliness.  But mostly airplanes.

[exM20K]

2 hours ago, chinoguym20 said:

 I wonder if they will work on an entry level like the M10?

I hope they don't.  It was a very competitive space last year with some strong incumbents.  Now, it's hopeless.  The trainer market was driven by the pro-pilot "puppy mills."  They bought tons of planes (and parts).  They are now dying or dead.  10,000 type rated, turbine, pic pilots are w/o work right now.  After the Government Cheese the airlines have been living on goes away at the end of the month, that number is likely to grow.  

Many of the US "puppy mills" catered to Chinese and other foreign students.  How's that looking now?

There are enough trainer aircraft out there to satisfy that market for some time.  

-dan

 

[Missile=Awesome]

1 hour ago, aviatoreb said:

If you live in a world where everything is a fight then you see a fight.

Im being goofy and you see elitist bs.  There are some long running silliness on here like the long recurring parachute threads.  So imagine like a drinking game where someone says parachute and everyone has to take a swig then reread in that spirit.  I’m sorry you don’t have a place for silly and I’m sorry it offends you.

NOPE.

[Missile=Awesome]

10 hours ago, aviatoreb said:

Mooney in Texas only was great in the 1960s and 1970s, but by today, it has died.

So we either let it stay dead or try something else.  The business does not need to be steeped in a view through a political lens.  Let's just celebrate that an entrepreneurial group has an idea, some energy and some funding to give it a go.  Let's see!  I will cheer for this effort and I expect it might even work!

What does Tesla have to do with the reemergence of Mooney?  I 100% agree that Mooney reemergence does NOT need to be steeped in a view through a political lens....and yet Tesla was inserted EARLY in the thread.  What’s up with that?  Tesla was dropped in like a fart in a store aisle...check that reference...a fart is just a bodily function that needed a release.  Tesla here?  Why?  For what purpose?  Oh, I get it a high tech narrow rich audience transport must be clean sheet and radical to survive in the current world....O.K. Got it.

Good luck Mooney.  Hope you have a billionaire wonderkinder to propel you to greatness.  Might as well just change the name to something snazzy...Mooney is so yesterday.  Actually 1980 in my case.  That is plenty alright with me.  Give me some parts support and I am good.

Maybe Mota?  Ya.  Change the name to Mota?  The cool kids like coffee/high tech.  They have the money.  Mooney?  Not cool except to the geezers that hang out on Mooneyspace...like me. 

[gsxrpilot]

1 hour ago, kortopates said:

Absolutely, but only if Mooney provides a retrofit drawing and an update to the TCDS - which is something they have done many times and continue to do.

Without a manufacturer retrofit drawing, any mod from the the TCDS requires a 337 with a field approval - unless it's considered a minor mod. A Mooney drawing doesn't even need a 337.

This is how the Encore conversion is done to our 252's.

[Missile=Awesome]

Fly Mota.  The first fully autonomous airplane.  Tell Mota where you want to go and Mota does the rest.  Sit back.  Enjoy a video or the scenery because Mota will get you there safely.  From taxi to touchdown Mota will aviate, navigate and deliver you and your precious cargo to your destination with a squeaker every time.  Mota.  The future is here.  Climb on board.

Pilots are so yesterday.  Don’t fight it.  Sit back and enjoy...

Mota...

[donkaye]

23 hours ago, Mooney in Oz said:

Courtesy of The Mooney Flyer, page 5, September 2020 edition. (www.themooneyflyer.com)

Hopefully, some good will come out of this.

Mooney Update - August 21

Jonathan Pollack is the temporary CEO of Mooney. He has been running Mooney for the past 6 months. No additional details at this time.

In the short term, Mooney will only be providing Parts & Service; not building airplanes. There is only a 10% gross margin on the Acclaim. They need to right the ship before restarting the manufacturing of airplanes. Current owner wishes to manufacture Mooneys in China and Africa.

Mooney is fixing the G1000 issue. They will also offer a “carbon cowl”, saving 15 lbs.

Jonathan wants to increase the useful load by 400-500 lbs. He did not have a timeframe for this. This opens the possibility for a ballistic parachute or increased cabin space.

Mooney will joint venture with an outside company to refurbish and recertify those airplanes. This could result in more affordable M20s.

Mooney wants to create an Advisory Board including the Mooney Community. We think this is a good step.

 

A year ago June Don Maxwell had a convention called MooneyMax in Longview.  At that time I was approached by an individual attending the convention who asked if I would fly with him for some landing practice. I think he had just gotten the airplane a few months earlier.  (It may have earlier than that).   We flew for about an hour and a half.  He was a very good pilot and I was able to supply him with some tips.  As I recall we talked about Mooney as a Company and he had a lot of ideas.  I've heard a lot of people who had a lot of ideas about Mooney.  Nothing ever came of them.  And so it was that I received the above notice.  I went back to my logbook to see who it was that I had flown with that June day.  It was Jonathan Pollack.  Some people are more than talk.  They do...

I look forward to see what great things you can do with Mooney, Jonny.

[carusoam]

It’s not over, until it’s over... - Y. Berra 

It looks like we are about to witness the future of world wide machine manufacturing up close...

 

If we get bogged down in the small details of what is better A or B... or,

They can’t get it done because... or,

They need a gross margin of X... Or,

 

Servo driven engine controls don’t Or won’t exist in Mooneys...  Really? Ask that auto lean guy / MSer @takair how about a Servo driven step?
 

It looks like we have never manufactured anything in a regulated environment...

Yet MS has a few STC writers on board... Engineers that work under the FAA’s domain...

We have enough legal expertIse to build owner supplied parts successfully...
 

The FAA isn’t all bad, evil, don’t get it done people... they actually have some good people and systems...

 

Every now and then, Somebody shares some enlightenment...

What works for them..

How they did it...

MS is not only owners of ancient Mooneys...

There are some brand new Mooney owners here as well...

It won’t make anyone new friends by tossing out un-nice statements like... ‘ I would never buy a new Mooney...’
 

Plenty of choices available...

Plenty of opinions too...

 

It gets less interesting when the barbs come out...

It doesn’t help anyone, not even the barb thrower...

 

What’s it like being a barb thrower, and not knowing it...? 
 

There was this young buck once, in a high office... who chose the moon... he chose the moon, and the other things... not because it was easy, but because it was haaaard....

A few years later, it was done...  people bogged down in negativity, probably didn't get invited to the party... 

PP thoughts only, looking towards the future, life is too short to get bogged down...

Best regards,

-a-

 

 

[Missile=Awesome]

https://www.valuewalk.com/2020/09/tesla-stock-split-meaningful-news/?utm_source=feedly&utm_medium=webfeeds&fbclid=IwAR1xMSpz1UttXFGU3_FfqmHzq2jYD4q7cgXs9ZROXtNNrZ8AbCdQ3yurvZo&=1
 

oh I know it -a-  Speaking of barbs...

Not much of a party guy anymore.