Control shaft upgrade

[wings_level]

Ok.  I’ve been doing some research trying to get rid of the control yoke ad.  
 

This is from parts manual of M20C.   Notice the control shaft where it attaches to the yoke (see red circle).

 

Now, this is the same part from the M20J parts manual.

 

And finally, here is the same part from a M20R 

 

Now I know the two main differences in the M20C model yokes from the other two. 1) The shaft thickness thus eliminating the ad and 2) the control yoke pin M20C is vertical and others are horizontal.  But it looks as if the shaft ends (red circles) are all the same.  Help me out here cause as seen from other posts on here the shaft end pictures are different from what I am seeing on the parts manual.  Looks as if the “J” or “R” models should fit a “C”, of course you would need to get the hand yokes as well due to pin alignment difference.

[N6758N]

Early J's (I think only 1977)- had the same shaft attachment at the back end as all the older Mooneys. Starting in 78/79 they switch to the style as shown in your last pic- so if you just want to changes the yokes and shafts- you need to find a 77' J for a donor, otherwise you will need the yokes, shafts, and elevator yoke with the universals to do the swap if you're using a later model bird as a donor...

[wings_level]

Great, thanks for the input.  But it looks like all 3 of my pics are the same shaft?  Based off the part numbers, the last two photos have the same part number.  Second pic likely from a later model J I guess.  Just looks like all three are the same.  See parts lists below from J.  710064 has 6 different part number 501, 502, 503, 504, 509, 510.  What’s up with that? I would expect two, one for each side, but 6?

 

Edited August 28, 2020 by wings_level

[wings_level]

Finally getting this figured out. I think.

 From the parts list above and digging through the effective Roman numerals on the right of the page, it appears
501 & 502 are the shafts for 1977-1979 J.

503 & 504 is for 1980 - 1997 except for last two serial numbers 24-3411 and 24-3412

509 & 510 is for 1997 24-3411 and 24-3412 thru 1998.

The M20R is listing the control shaft as 509 & 510.  So the 1998 J models has the same shaft as the R.  The only thing that puzzles me is why the shaft illustrations for the J and R look identical to the C model illustration  in the figures above.

Anyways, now I need to figure out which ones (501 & 502) or (503 & 504) will fit my C model.
I have was able to pick up of set of the 201 yokes.  Just need the shafts now.

[carusoam]

WL,

Terry has been posting some details for a set of yokes he was selling...

there are some really good pics recently that show the differences at the end of the yokes where they attach to the flight controls...

So...

there are two styles of yoke shafts old vs. new...

The hardware at the business end has a different orientation and requires a few parts to work properly...

 

Find the pics, most of your questions get answers...

Then you will have more challenging follow-up questions...

Find the pics, they are awesome!

Best regards,

-a-

[Skates97]

It's pretty simple. Find the new control shafts, if the half circle part on the end is one the top (12 o'clock position) you won't need to replace the yoke. If the half circle part on the end is on the side (9 o'clock on lh and 3 o'clock on the rh) then you will have to replace the yoke. 

Also be aware that the control wheels on our old birds have the bolt vertical and on the newer control wheels are horizontal. I saw you posted in the other thread that I documented the differences and process. I'm sure you're hoping (as I was) to just change out the shafts, but the ones that are compatible with the yoke in our planes are not going to be easy to find. The newer ones don't come up for sale very often either. I've been looking off and on for a couple of years and have only seen three sets. One I was too slow on, sold in less than a day over on Beechtalk, the others are the set I did buy and the other set that just sold here. Expect to pay around $1500-2000 depending on the condition of the control wheels. 

[wings_level]

This may be a crazy question, but...

Has anyone tried contacting Mooney to see if they would make the control shaft from a J that would fit on a C model without having to replace the yoke at the bottom end?  I have the control wheel yokes from a J, just need them to make the correct shaft.  May be easier than digging through salvage places.   Surely they are making parts for the J models.  Price may be ridiculous.

 

[carusoam]

If you have enough money to buy a new Ovation...

Simple ideas like this work out really well.

So many document writers and approves are needed to make the simplest of changes...

When parts like this exist in the world already...

Spending new Ovation money makes less sense...
 

The Mooney factory has often got involved with customer specific FAA related projects...

Look at it in a simple way... if it cost an annual’s worth of labor to get this done... wrapped in all the appropriate paperwork?

Would you spend the annual’s budget on this device?

Could you sell the device and it’s paperwork to a few other people to spread the paperwork costs out?

We have a few MS STC writers around... document your idea thoroughly and see if you can get some traction...

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic...

Best regards,

-a-

[wings_level]

Found this on Mooney website.  Not sure if this is accurate or even will work.  But it looks like maybe a retro kit already out there.  In the meantime my mechanic and I are in search for used shafts that will fit.

[Marauder]

Found this on Mooney website.  Not sure if this is accurate or even will work.  But it looks like maybe a retro kit already out there.  In the meantime my mechanic and I are in search for used shafts that will fit.

In 1998, I purchased the Mooney yoke upgrade kit for my F. The kit included all the mounting hardware needed for my F and a large set of blueprints. Back then the kit was a little under $2k.

Someone got a quote from Mooney not too long ago. The kit was over $6k.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[wings_level]

Wow.  Good to know Marauder.  Thanks for the info.   Mine shafts passed the AD inspection in my June 2020 annual.  So I am good for 500 hours.  Maybe I’ll find some by then. 

Edited August 30, 2020 by wings_level

[wings_level]

Just priced out the control shaft retrofit kit.  $6600. It does include new modern control wheels that are on the new M20U (Ovation Ultra) and M20V (Acclaim Ultra) models.  So that’s cool.   Just not sure it is worth the spend or not.

[gsxrpilot]

1 hour ago, wings_level said:

Just priced out the control shaft retrofit kit.  $6600. It does include new modern control wheels that are on the new M20U (Ovation Ultra) and M20V (Acclaim Ultra) models.  So that’s cool.   Just not sure it is worth the spend or not.

Not if you're selling this Mooney and moving to another one.

[RobertGary1]

If your AD more than mine? Mine is a quick visual inspection every 500 hours as I recall. 
 

-Robert 

[wings_level]

Mooney quoted me two new retrofit control shafts to fit my C model.  I have found a set of J model yokes, needed the shafts parts numbers 710072-507 & -508.  Mooney will make the shafts ~$800 each.  I may be in business now.

[wings_level]

I got my 201 style yokes.  But as you can see I am missing one of the set screws.  Anyone know where I can find one?  Are they just standard set screws that I can order someone after sizing with calipers?

[N201MKTurbo]

3 minutes ago, wings_level said:

I got my 201 style yokes.  But as you can see I am missing one of the set screws.  Anyone know where I can find one?  Are they just standard set screws that I can order someone after sizing with calipers?

Set screws have different tips. If you have a good one, look at what tip it has and how long it is. verify the threads with a standard screw. It is probably a cone tip. 

BTW, the part number for the set screw should be in the parts manual.

[Missile=Awesome]

I got my 201 yokes and shafts from a salvage operation in Colorado for $300...I still look over my shoulder (‘cause I feel like I stole ‘em) when I think about that deal.  They had a yoke switch to shut off the PC (with the electric solenoid). The gentleman that bought our E pulled out all the Brittain for a dual G5 install...

[wings_level]

These yokes come off of a K model I believe.  Does anyone have a parts catalog for K model that can share the set screw part number?

[wings_level]

Well Mooney made me two new shafts for my C model that will allow for the 201 style yokes.  Got them delivered and my mechanic fit everything up, now getting the yokes recovered at Aerocomfort.

Edited March 1, 2021 by wings_level

[wings_level]

Here they are all fit up.  This pic is a just getting them installed so pay no attention to the wiring hanging down.

[carusoam]

Fancy That!

-a-

[wings_level]

Well after taking a couple trips, still got one small problem.  Too tight to turn the ailerons.  Have to really have a grip on them to turn left or right.  Matter of fact, my stec 30 autopilot will not override the stiffness.  I guess it thinks the pilot is trying to override the autopilot.  So it won’t turn to track the heading bug and if you turn it off course while it’s trying to tack the gps the ap will not correct itself because its too hard to turn and it thinks it is a pilot override.  Not sure what I’m gonna do about that 

[tim417]

@wingslevel Did you ever get this resolved? If so, what did you do to fix it?

[wings_level]

5 hours ago, tim417 said:

@wingslevel Did you ever get this resolved? If so, what did you do to fix it?

The shaft was tightened down too tight. Just needed a little adjustment and all is well.