Lazy 8s in a M20E

[Yourpilotincommand]

Working to master my commercial maneuvers and having difficulty with consistency in the lazy 8s. Everything else seems consistent. I typically do these at 2500 rpm, 18”, and 132mph.  What do you recommend for consistency? I’ve seen all the YouTube vids. Perhaps there’s one that fits best for a Mooney. Thanks!

[Comet]

All commercial maneuvers are about planning and adapting.  Look at where are you at 45 degrees; adapt to be at the right point at 90 and 135 and 180.  For me, that meant changing pitch and bank angle to get to where I needed to be.  I seem to remember doing them (in an F) at 18”, 2500 rpm, but ~120 mph (but also typically at 9500’).  
 

My commercial instructor always said that if a lazy 8 wasn’t boring, I was doing it wrong!

[eman1200]

Forget about the traditional 45, 90 and 135* points. Find a long, straight road and just use that as your visual reference. So much easier for me, but I’m in the flatlands. Maybe if u have huge mountain peaks off on the horizon to reference, fine, but using a road makes it super easy. Then just keep doing them, back and forth, all the way down the road.

[Skates97]

2 hours ago, Yourpilotincommand said:

Working to master my commercial maneuvers and having difficulty with consistency in the lazy 8s. Everything else seems consistent. I typically do these at 2500 rpm, 18”, and 132mph.  What do you recommend for consistency? I’ve seen all the YouTube vids. Perhaps there’s one that fits best for a Mooney. Thanks!

Have you watched this one? There are some great CFI's here on the board that may have other pointers, but I found his method here to be simple and the plane really flies the maneuver on it's own.

 

[AlexLev]

10 minutes ago, Skates97 said:

Have you watched this one? There are some great CFI's here on the board that may have other pointers, but I found his method here to be simple and the plane really flies the maneuver on it's own.

 

That video really helped me when I was going for my CPL.

[Nico1]

Reviving this thread to not start a new one. I'm getting into commercial maneuvers (self-study for now). 

The FAA flying handbook says to enter at maneuvering or cruise speed (whichever is less or manufacturer's recommended speed). So, Va is 117 kts on the F, but that's at max gross... normally for just me and not full fuel i'm closer to 2200lbs (so Va is closer to 105). At that MP (around 14", 2500rpm, 4500ft) its impossible to do the maneuver without feeding it some more MP to avoid entering the 'do not operate continuously' RPM zone... So what's the right setup here?

[midlifeflyer]

5 minutes ago, Nico1 said:

Reviving this thread to not start a new one. I'm getting into commercial maneuvers (self-study for now). 

The FAA flying handbook says to enter at maneuvering or cruise speed (whichever is less or manufacturer's recommended speed). So, Va is 117 kts on the F, but that's at max gross... normally for just me and not full fuel i'm closer to 2200lbs (so Va is closer to 105). At that MP (around 14", 2500rpm, 4500ft) its impossible to do the maneuver without feeding it some more MP to avoid entering the 'do not operate continuously' RPM zone... So what's the right setup here?

Published Va is always at max gross. There is a formula for calculating it at less than max gross, which works for many stall-related V-speeds. A Rule of thumb is 2kt/100 lbs.

For constant speed props, RPM will be full forward, adjust MP to get the speed you want. 

[bigmo]

OP, I could be mistaken, but are you sort of self teaching yourself the maneuvers? If so, I'd recommend you not try that and get up with a CFI that's solid on his/her commercial maneuvers. One thing I do is separate my chandelles from Lazy 8's because they are very different maneuverers. The chandelle is mechanical, the lazy 8 is art.

I'm by no means a master instructor, but in general, they are constantly rushed. Two things right off the bat, many commercial students have a REALLY hard time looking out the window. So much that I just cover everything but the TC. I won't try to teach via Mooneyspace but SLOW DOWN. Airspeed doesnt really matter, but 130mph works well in my F...but so does 120, 125, 135...airspeed isnt really important. The maneuver is about capturing energy, then releasing that energy, and then recapturing it once again. 

I make students talk out loud at the speed of "one-Mississippi" "Pitch, pitch, bank, SLOW". It takes very little bank input and as your aircraft starts to slow, it will bank all on its own. 

I disagree with not selecting good reference points - and any DPE will too. Don't force the plane to fit into the reference points. Pick some, fly the maneuver well, and see what the results are. Constantly envision yourself on a skateboard half pipe and where on that half pipe you are. Eyes outside always except a quick glance to make sure you're coordinated (and therefore maximizing the energy transfer). 

This is a maneuver that takes very little control input. The aircraft is doing what it wants to do if you were not there.

Look outside.

Feel.

Listen.

Stay coordinated.

Relax & slow.

Practice and they'll come naturally and become one of your favorite managers. 

Oh, slow down.

[N201MKTurbo]

I remember my commercial check ride. I practiced chandels and lazy eights a lot. On my check ride I got half way through the first chandel of the lazy eight and the check ride guy says “you got this, let’s move on”