TSA

[Skyatty]

KSLC has badging and background requirements and the initial process was a PIA mainly because I live 30 miles from the airport.  Once the badge was issued, I never experienced another problem with it.  Most of the are accessible from outside the fence so that has never been an issue.  I have never experienced an issue at any "foreign" airport that I have visited including Van Nuys, North Las Vegas and Idaho Falls.  On the positive side, as an aircraft owner, I appreciate security at my home airport that leads us all to monitor what is happening in and around the entrances to our hangar areas and I don't mind reasonable regulation.  I suppose that 8G now requires an additional step in flight planning to make sure that there is a means to access your aircraft after hours.  Thanks for raising the issue Mitch, I will add it to my checklist.  As with all regulations, different facilities will enact and enforce regulations differently,  The Grand Junction manager has pushed it to the extremes and the impact on the GA businesses at that airport are likely to force him to moderate his enforcement.  I hear that you are frustrated, Mitch, but tying this to the Nazis minimizes the true horror of the Nazis.  This is more another example of government bureaucracy run wild.

[kerry]

Mitch,

I feel your frustration and I do feel that the extra security is not going to prevent a terroist event.  I would like to play devil's advocate.  I do think some of these measures at some airports have benefits in protecting our airplanes.  It's just the way our society is.  e.g.  When I recently visited Oceano airport I had no worries because it was a great community.  I'm based out of North Las Vegas and I'm glad to see these measures in place to protect my plane from vadelism or theft (like low life's stealing fuel).  I just wanted to point out there are some benefits at some airports for these inconveniences.

[PilotDerek]

Mitch,

I agree that our government has gone overboard with aviation security but nothing else. Do you need a background check to rent a u-haul? Do you go through the ridiculous TSA screening to get on a train or subway? No. It truly saddens me how much people are willing to give up in the name of safety, and a false safety at that. These directives much like gun control only punish law abiding citizens. Criminal and terrorists are not going to be stopped by these restrictions. Anyone who believes this, sorry to burst your bubble.

 

If they want an idea to get on the airport, why won’t my pilot’s cert and picture id work? I will indeed be writing my representation on this issue because it truly serves no purpose. I may add that if they truly want to increase security they should fence off truck stops with the same security checks.

 

Do not be dissuaded from the issue by the references to Hitler’s Nazi Germany. That man slowly took away people’s right while making other people feel good about it. It was all about public control. If you think there are not similarities to what is happening in our country you need to rethink it. There may not be the atrocities of life, but many of our traditions and beliefs are being taken from us and our children.

 

Bottom line: Write your Congressmen and Senator’s as AOPA was unable to win this fight on their own, together we may.   

 

 

"Beware the leader who bangs the drums of crises and patriotism...it emboldens the blood and narrows the mind. When the drums have reached a fever pitch...the leader will have no need in seizing the rights of the citizenry...rather, in...fused with fear, they will offer up all of their rights...and gladly so. How do I know? For this is what I have done." - Julius Caesar

[Becca]

First of all, the first person who mentions nazis in an argument always loses.    I think that's my husband in this case.

Second, I think having to be badged and background checked to enter a general aviation airport is absurd and it would definitely make me consider moving my airplane to a more friendly place (and if many people do that, well, free market and all, right? airports will feel the financial pain).  However, I do understand the point that GA can be a huge security risk compared to the screening that regular aviation goes through.  Flying is a privledge, not a right, as many many court decisions uphold, so security or obstacles at an airport isn't violating any of our "constitutional" rights.  What I like is a common sense approach.  Like AOPA's airport watch.  Police ourselves so the police don't have to come in.  Years ago at the airport I learned to fly at, someone (drug smugglers, most likely) attempted to steal a corporate jet (yes, seriously).  But an alert line guy didn't recognize the pilots so he parked a fuel truck in front of the taxi route while he summoned the police.   Problem solved.   But there are security risks and we do have police to prevent us from crime - in the same way they may drive by the bank more frequently than your house, because its a more probably target - the police (in the case of aviation its TSA) need to keep an eye on the airports.  The question is when are they too over zealous in their duties.

[Becca]

Quote: scottfromiowa

Mitch,

I understand your frustration...I fly out of CID and have my hanger "inside the fence'.  I am required...if I want to continue to hanger...to submit to the background check for badge issuance.  I get it, the airport carries passengers and they are required to have the security procedures in place...what is frustrating is that after having had my hanger/badge/keys for over 5 years when I came due for "re-badging" even though I had already been screened my drivers license and aairport badge with photo did NOT qualify for re-issue.  I had to bring out my SS card that was photocopied and maintained by airport security...I know they are just following rules...but had to make four trips to do this as they didn't have me sign one area...had to sit through a 45 minute power point presentation...again.  Bottom line is that I choose to hanger inside the fence.  I value knowing my plane is secure in a locked hanger inside the fence...Is it a pain in the @$$...absolutely do I curse every time I fly commercial yes, but I curse because terrorists have forced our country to give up some of our freedom...I don't curse the government on this one...We must keep the skies safe.  Do I wince when a fellow pilot decides to use his plane to check out by targeting the IRS...yes.  Be an AOPA member, if you are NOT and you are a pilot shame on you.  They are fighting for our rights as GA pilots.  The Gov't does what they always do...tax, spend and make laws that punish the many for the indecretions of the few.  Just between me and you if I had been the one responding to the Detroit guy trying to light his underwear...he would NOT have had the opportunity to have been read his rights.  His trachea would have been crushed...end of terrorist.  End of rant, er I mean response.  Have a great weekend everyone!

[John Pleisse]

Come live in DC under special flight rules and see the nightmare it has caused for 5 or 6 GA airports, traffic and clearance delays, etc.. To fly in and around the nations captital, one has to complete an on line Special Flight Rules course. I remember a day when ATC would transition you straight up the Potomac (after hours) or just north of the Whie House, right over downtown DC. No longer. TSA is just a draconian as the FAA.

[PTK]

Take a chill pill! It's not that bad! I tend to think that they just want to do their job and you are over reacting. No one wants to punish us or refuse us access to our airplanes! Just apply some logic. Most likely, if this was an issue, you are visiting a larger airport that also has commercial aviation activity. You need to understand that commercial activity doesn't mix very well with GA as far as the TSA is concerned. Furthermore TSA procedures are secretive and differ among airports depending on size and location. Also more than likely you are going to be utilizing the services of an FBO rather than just showing up at your destination and leaving your airplane parked out in the middle of the parking lot. In view of all these things common sense would dictate that you would make a phone call to the FBO you intend to utilize ahead of time. Or if you drop in an alternate situation simply ask them. You'll know exactly what is required for you to be able to pick up your airplane any time of the day! They are there everyday and they would know what is required at their specific airport. Communication and staying informed is the key.

P.S.

Becca, one sure way to never see your airplane again is to jump the fence!! My old instrument instructor once told me "strive to be a round peg in a round hole and not a square peg in a round hole." 

[Parker_Woodruff]

Quote: allsmiles

Take a chill pill! It's not that bad! 

[Becca]

Quote: allsmiles

Becca, one sure way to never see your airplane again is to jump the fence!! My old instrument instructor once told me "strive to be a round peg in a round hole and not a square peg in a round hole." 

[RJBrown]

Quote: Becca

  Flying is a privledge, not a right, as many many court decisions uphold, so security or obstacles at an airport isn't violating any of our "constitutional" rights. 

[PilotDerek]

Quote: allsmiles

My old instrument instructor once told me "strive to be a round peg in a round hole and not a square peg in a round hole." 

[John Pleisse]

Quote: RJBrown

 Every thing is becoming a "privilege" Not a right. This phrase as used by you underscores the way we are controlled. The constitution only gave limited authority to the federal government all other "rights" were retained to the citizens. This phrase explains in a nut shell how reversed the thinking about rights has become. The courts that have twisted our "rights" into "privileges"

[kerry]

If all options failed with trying to get into the airport.  I'd jump the fence.  I would think if law enforcement showed up and I explained that that's my plane and all my other options failed trying to get in.  I  think they would understand I got out of my plane and went out the gate and it locked me out.  If I was locked out of my house or car and I used methods of getting back into my property I'd think law enforcement would understand after checking my story out. 

[jetdriven]

deleted

[PTK]

Quote: kerry

If all options failed with trying to get into the airport.  I'd jump the fence.  I would think if law enforcement showed up and I explained that that's my plane and all my other options failed trying to get in.  I  think they would understand I got out of my plane and went out the gate and it locked me out.  If I was locked out of my house or car and I used methods of getting back into my property I'd think law enforcement would understand after checking my story out. 

[mooneym20d]

Quote: allsmiles

The point is you don't HAVE to jump the fence! We're living in the best country in the world. We enjoy the more freedoms than are available in most other countries. We can get up in the morning and go flying just because we feel like it! America affords us this privilege. All we're asked is to just adhere to some common sense. It's a small price to pay in my opinion! 

[N601RX]

not me

[N601RX]

not me

[N601RX]

not me

[mooneym20d]

We should be proud of this legacy we will pass on to our kids. We are that shining city on the hill. The beacon of hope.

 

I hear ya! Unfortunately, I live in the Communist Republic of Massachusetts. This place is a mecca for progressives and anyone else who thinks the gov't needs to have it's hand in every aspect of everyone's lives. We were the first to get gov't mandated health insurance. Thanks, Mitt!! My premiums went up 75% in the last two years.

[GeorgePerry]

Quote: allsmiles

Take a chill pill! It's not that bad! I tend to think that they just want to do their job and you are over reacting. No one wants to punish us or refuse us access

[Becca]

Quote: N4352H

 Every thing is becoming a "privilege" Not a right. This phrase as used by you underscores the way we are controlled. The constitution only gave limited authority to the federal government all other "rights" were retained to the citizens. This phrase explains in a nut shell how reversed the thinking about rights has become. The courts that have twisted our "rights" into "privileges"

[scottfromiowa]

Quote: Becca

Having to be badged and background checked and having my visitors hassled before being admitted to my hanger would really annoy me.  Have you considered voting with your wallet and taking your business to a different airport?

[sleepingsquirrel]

Quote: RJBrown

 Every thing is becoming a "privilege" Not a right. This phrase as used by you underscores the way we are controlled. The constitution only gave limited authority to the federal government all other "rights" were retained to the citizens. This phrase explains in a nut shell how reversed the thinking about rights has become. The courts that have twisted our "rights" into "privileges"

[sleepingsquirrel]

Quote: kerry

If all options failed with trying to get into the airport.  I'd jump the fence.  I would think if law enforcement showed up and I explained that that's my plane and all my other options failed trying to get in.  I  think they would understand I got out of my plane and went out the gate and it locked me out.  If I was locked out of my house or car and I used methods of getting back into my property I'd think law enforcement would understand after checking my story out.