Primary Category

[Flybeech21]

How many of you guys have transitioned to the primary category?  This sounds like a no brainer to me...

 

 

[1964-M20E]

OK you got me what's primary category? 

 

Maybe I'm showing my lack of knowledge.

[carusoam]

I seemed to get more confused each time the word primary gets used...

Primary colors...

Primary foods...

Primary care...

Primary instruments... CHT, but not EGT...

Power is primary for altitude...

Which primary is it that we are going to discuss...?

Best regards,

-a-

[201wantabe]

Are you talking about this primary category https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?node=14:1.0.1.3.9#se14.1.21_124 ?

 

I am confused as to why you would want to? 

[RLCarter]

1 hour ago, 1964-M20E said:

Maybe I'm showing my lack of knowledge.

Don't worry, I'll share the lack of knowledge with ya 

[Flybeech21]

https://www.faa.gov/aircraft/air_cert/airworthiness_certification/sp_awcert/primary/

From what I understand, experimental maintenance rules apply.

Edited January 27, 2020 by Flybeech21

[cferr59]

Is that a thing we can do?  I have all kinds of ideas to trick out my Mooney...

8 minutes ago, Flybeech21 said:

https://www.faa.gov/aircraft/air_cert/airworthiness_certification/sp_awcert/primary/

From what I understand, experimental maintenance rules apply.

 

[1964-M20E]

10 minutes ago, Flybeech21 said:

https://www.faa.gov/aircraft/air_cert/airworthiness_certification/sp_awcert/primary/

From what I understand, experimental maintenance rules apply.

Maybe I'm reading this too strictly or projecting an FAA bureaucratic mindset. but I think this just applies to an aircraft that would normally fall under experimental rules but the kit manufacturer assembles the entire aircraft for you.  Comments???  

I don't think the FAA will allow us to go that route.  It would be nice if they would.  Some of the applicable regulations are listed below.  They do prevent us from adding a turbo charger to the aircraft or adding a turbo charged aircraft to the Primary category.

  What is not clear to me is in primary category can we then follow experimental rules for maintenance and modifications or will you have to still go to the FAA for any modifications say electronic ignition or engine swaps (IO-360A1A to another Lycoming IO-360 variant?)

 

 

§21.184   Issue of special airworthiness certificates for primary category aircraft.

(a) New primary category aircraft manufactured under a production certificate. An applicant for an original, special airworthiness certificate-primary category for a new aircraft that meets the criteria of §21.24(a)(1), manufactured under a production certificate, including aircraft assembled by another person from a kit provided by the holder of the production certificate and under the supervision and quality control of that holder, is entitled to a special airworthiness certificate without further showing, except that the FAA may inspect the aircraft to determine conformity to the type design and condition for safe operation.

(b) Imported aircraft. An applicant for a special airworthiness certificate-primary category for an imported aircraft type certificated under §21.29 is entitled to a special airworthiness certificate if the civil airworthiness authority of the country in which the aircraft was manufactured certifies, and the FAA finds after inspection, that the aircraft conforms to an approved type design that meets the criteria of §21.24(a)(1) and is in a condition for safe operation.

(c) Aircraft having a current standard airworthiness certificate. An applicant for a special airworthiness certificate-primary category, for an aircraft having a current standard airworthiness certificate that meets the criteria of §21.24(a)(1), may obtain the primary category certificate in exchange for its standard airworthiness certificate through the supplemental type certification process. For the purposes of this paragraph, a current standard airworthiness certificate means that the aircraft conforms to its approved normal, utility, or acrobatic type design, complies with all applicable airworthiness directives, has been inspected and found airworthy within the last 12 calendar months in accordance with §91.409(a)(1) of this chapter, and is found to be in a condition for safe operation by the FAA.

(d) Other aircraft. An applicant for a special airworthiness certificate-primary category for an aircraft that meets the criteria of §21.24(a)(1), and is not covered by paragraph (a), (b), or (c) of this section, is entitled to a special airworthiness certificate if—

(1) The applicant presents evidence to the FAA that the aircraft conforms to an approved primary, normal, utility, or acrobatic type design, including compliance with all applicable airworthiness directives;

(2) The aircraft has been inspected and found airworthy within the past 12 calendar months in accordance with §91.409(a)(1) of this chapter and;

(3) The aircraft is found by the FAA to conform to an approved type design and to be in a condition for safe operation.

(e) Multiple-category airworthiness certificates in the primary category and any other category will not be issued; a primary category aircraft may hold only one airworthiness certificate.

[Doc. No. 23345, 57 FR 41368, Sept. 9, 1992, as amended by Amdt. 21-70, 57 FR 43776, Sept. 22, 1992]

 

 

21.24   Issuance of type certificate: primary category aircraft.

(a) The applicant is entitled to a type certificate for an aircraft in the primary category if—

(1) The aircraft—

(i) Is unpowered; is an airplane powered by a single, naturally aspirated engine with a 61-knot or less Vso stall speed as determined under part 23 of this chapter; or is a rotorcraft with a 6-pound per square foot main rotor disc loading limitation, under sea level standard day conditions;

(ii) Weighs not more than 2,700 pounds; or, for seaplanes, not more than 3,375 pounds;

(iii) Has a maximum seating capacity of not more than four persons, including the pilot; and

(iv) Has an unpressurized cabin.

(2) The applicant has submitted—

(i) Except as provided by paragraph (c) of this section, a statement, in a form and manner acceptable to the FAA, certifying that: the applicant has completed the engineering analysis necessary to demonstrate compliance with the applicable airworthiness requirements; the applicant has conducted appropriate flight, structural, propulsion, and systems tests necessary to show that the aircraft, its components, and its equipment are reliable and function properly; the type design complies with the airworthiness standards and noise requirements established for the aircraft under §21.17(f); and no feature or characteristic makes it unsafe for its intended use;

(ii) The flight manual required by §21.5(b), including any information required to be furnished by the applicable airworthiness standards;

(iii) Instructions for continued airworthiness in accordance with §21.50(b); and

(iv) A report that: summarizes how compliance with each provision of the type certification basis was determined; lists the specific documents in which the type certification data information is provided; lists all necessary drawings and documents used to define the type design; and lists all the engineering reports on tests and computations that the applicant must retain and make available under §21.49 to substantiate compliance with the applicable airworthiness standards.

(3) The FAA finds that—

(i) The aircraft complies with those applicable airworthiness requirements approved under §21.17(f) of this part; and

(ii) The aircraft has no feature or characteristic that makes it unsafe for its intended use.

(b) An applicant may include a special inspection and preventive maintenance program as part of the aircraft's type design or supplemental type design.

(c) For aircraft manufactured outside of the United States in a country with which the United States has a bilateral airworthiness agreement for the acceptance of these aircraft, and from which the aircraft is to be imported into the United States—

(1) The statement required by paragraph (a)(2)(i) of this section must be made by the civil airworthiness authority of the exporting country; and

(2) The required manuals, placards, listings, instrument markings, and documents required by paragraphs (a) and (b) of this section must be submitted in English.

[Doc. No. 23345, 57 FR 41367, Sept. 9, 1992, as amended by Amdt. 21-75, 62 FR 62808, Nov. 25, 1997; Doc. No. FAA-2015-1621, Amdt. 21-100, 81 FR 96689, Dec. 30, 2016]

[Flybeech21]

I know a guy here in Atlanta that did it in his Cessna 150.  He has an all glass panel (all experimental avionics), all all kinds of other upgrades.  He is putting it on floats with a 180 HP engine and it is all accomplished with a simple logbook entry.  The caveat is that if you transition it back to standard or normal category, you either have to have all of your mods field approved or remove them and go back to certified equipment.

He also has a M20C that he is getting ready to transition.  

[Flybeech21]

1 minute ago, 1964-M20E said:

Maybe I'm reading this too strictly or projecting an FAA bureaucratic mindset. but I think this just applies to an aircraft that would normally fall under experimental rules but the kit manufacturer assembles the entire aircraft for you.  Comments???  

I don't think the FAA will allow us to go that route.  It would be nice if they would.  Some of the applicable regulations are listed below.  They do prevent us from adding a turbo charger to the aircraft or adding a turbo charged aircraft to the Primary category.

  What is not clear to me is in primary category can we then follow experimental rules for maintenance and modifications or will you have to still go to the FAA for any modifications say electronic ignition or engine swaps (IO-360A1A to another Lycoming IO-360 variant?)

I think it all depends on the specific wording in your STC.

I will see if I can get him to comment on this thread.

[1964-M20E]

8 minutes ago, Flybeech21 said:

I know a guy here in Atlanta that did it in his Cessna 150.  He has an all glass panel (all experimental avionics), all all kinds of other upgrades.  He is putting it on floats with a 180 HP engine and it is all accomplished with a simple logbook entry.  The caveat is that if you transition it back to standard or normal category, you either have to have all of your mods field approved or remove them and go back to certified equipment.

He also has a M20C that he is getting ready to transition.  

Cool I'm in if we can do this. 

[steingar]

I'm not.  Hard enough to sell airplanes as it is.

[Flybeech21]

5 hours ago, steingar said:

I'm not.  Hard enough to sell airplanes as it is.

Good Point...

[carusoam]

Kevin,

This is great that you supplied so much detail...

Is any other flying media covering this?

 

This is the first time I’ve heard about it...

And somebody has already modified a C150 following the rules...

 

Just wondering where to find more details from a consumer friendly resource... 

PP thoughts only...

Best regards,

-a-

[DXB]

1 hour ago, carusoam said:

Just wondering where to find more details from a consumer friendly resource... 

And if this is a legit option, could you maybe go back in time and post it before I did all my avionics upgrades?!  

Seriously I thought going experimental with a certified aircraft meant only being able to go to airshows and such.

[carusoam]

Since the EAA has done such a good job at keeping the experimental option alive...

And there are many Mooney owners that would like to take up their own maintenance on their own machine....

It sounds like a great idea...

 

What makes it less than believable...

• the 51%rule in the experimental world has been there a long time... as well as
• the builder rule... the new owner doesn’t have the same rights as the original builder did...

Add this to the newer interpretations of the 31 items a PP can do for maintenance... on his own machine...

 

I am a pretty avid watcher of AOPA news on Saturdays... I don’t recall hearing anything there...

This is quite ground breaking, or terribly mis-leading... whatever the case may be... 

 

For others... the MSC maintained line in their sales ad.... is still going to carry some meaning...

Best regards,

-a-

[1964-M20E]

Well a good discussion but this will rule out all of our M20s unless you put floats on the Mooney.  I guess if you make the floats easy to remove like snow skis put them on get the certificate and the remove them only to put them on once a year for annual inspection. 

(ii) Weighs not more than 2,700 pounds; or, for seaplanes, not more than 3,375 pounds;

[Spurious Moppet]

3 minutes ago, 1964-M20E said:

Well a good discussion but this will rule out all of our M20s unless you put floats on the Mooney.  I guess if you make the floats easy to remove like snow skis put them on get the certificate and the remove them only to put them on once a year for annual inspection. 

(ii) Weighs not more than 2,700 pounds; or, for seaplanes, not more than 3,375 pounds;

My E model max gross weight is 2575 so it would work. I heard something about the FAA administrator a couple Oshkosh’s ago saying there would be a primary non commercial category soon... Didn’t know it already existed. So what’s the holdup? Why aren’t people doing this?

[cferr59]

My M20c is 2575 too.  And I was thinking of adding floats once it is in the primary category.  I saw a picture of a float Cherokee...

[1964-M20E]

OK that make sense.  My F is 2740.  While you are at it change the max TO weight to 2699. 

[cferr59]

It would be nice if there was a repairman certificate available for small GA piston aircraft like is available for LSAs, even if it only allowed you to work on your own aircraft.  I can't take 2 years off from work to get an A&P, but I could take a few weeks or some kind of after hours classes.

[MikeOH]

So, how is this development going to affect insurance?

@Parker_Woodruff

[Parker_Woodruff]

2 hours ago, MikeOH said:

So, how is this development going to affect insurance?

@Parker_Woodruff

Well most policies require a standard airworthiness certificate, so there will have to be some endorsements written.

I haven't heard of this primary airworthiness rule until today.

[MoonFlyer68]

6 hours ago, 1964-M20E said:

Well a good discussion but this will rule out all of our M20s unless you put floats on the Mooney.  I guess if you make the floats easy to remove like snow skis put them on get the certificate and the remove them only to put them on once a year for annual inspection. 

(ii) Weighs not more than 2,700 pounds; or, for seaplanes, not more than 3,375 pounds;

Let me be clear that I am not looking to change my airplanes certificate, but that statement says the the airplane weight can't exceed 2,700 pounds NOT max gross weight.  I see it as you would have to look at your empty weight.  One place we might look for clarification would be ultralights and light sport.  How do those regs read and are they looking at max gross or aircraft empty weight?

[carusoam]

Sample of the ultralight rule... They don’t mention it... but it seems to be empty weight...  

-a-

To be considered an ultralight vehicle, a hang glider must weigh less than 155 pounds; while a powered vehicle must weigh less than 254 pounds; is limited to 5 U.S. gallons of fuel; must have a maximum speed of not more than 55 knots; and must have a poweroff stall speed of no more than 24 knots.

 

Sample of an Ovation’s Empty Weight...

A standard-equipped Ovation2 DX has an empty weight of approximately 2,315 pounds. Add full fuel, and available payload drops to 519 pounds.Jun 5, 2003 (AOPA)