Seeking cool weather pilots

[BrettKS]

I had an idea for a device and ended up prototyping a few, looking for testers. The device is an internet-connected (cellular LTE) AC switch with a web app control. The idea is to plug in my engine preheater and toggle the switch from my phone several hours prior to flight. I am of the mindset that it's not ideal to keep the engine preheater on 24/7, and like I imagine most pilots, my hangar does not have wifi for me to use a readily available plug solution.

Anyways, I am looking for a few owners who have a similar issue and would use it regularly to give me feedback. If you're interested, please send me a PM with 1)your name, 2) location where you hangar your aircraft, and 3)on average how many months per year you use your preheater.

 

Edit: Comparison from devices mentioned below:

I've actually used the commercially available IoT relay that was linked above. That way I can tinker with low voltage stuff and keep the heavy lifting in a) a separate box and b) someone else's product. Also as mentioned previously, I've used an embedded device with a cellular modem to drive a relay (we think alike!). The differences I've seen that set my method apart are: 1) LTE vs 2-3G networking -- 2G is nearly gone; I wonder what the support life-time of this cellular technology is; also better network coverage 2) A web app; SMS is old technology that is not as reliable and slower. I prefer to have a web-based portal that allows me to activate the switch among other features. 3) Web controls that make it "smarter"; turn on on this date if temp is < X, get history/status, set up schedules, overall just a bit more fine-tuned control. For the more nerdy folks, a RESTful API. 4) Possibly most importantly, a bit more affordable than the other commercial products out in the $300-500 range.

Edited December 3, 2019 by BrettKS

[toto]

Aren't there are lots of these switches already available?

[BrettKS]

3 minutes ago, toto said:

Aren't there are lots of these switches already available?

Plenty that work with wifi. There are a few niche products available for cellular capabilities that are quite expensive, but if you know of any that are cellular and not ridiculously expensive, I'd be interested to read about them!

Edited December 2, 2019 by BrettKS

[toto]

There's a product called SwitchBox that does basically this for $300 or so. 

https://switchboxcontrol.com/industry

(This page also includes a comparison article from AC, but it's oldish.)

I made one of these myself - I'll see if I can dig up a photo

[PaulM]

There are a number of threads, (search for andoer) for a previous GSM only solution.   

[BrettKS]

3 minutes ago, toto said:

There's a product called SwitchBox that does basically this for $300 or so. 

https://switchboxcontrol.com/industry

(This page also includes a comparison article from AC, but it's oldish.)

I made one of these myself - I'll see if I can dig up a photo

You're absolutely right -- this is very similar, but fairly expensive! Thanks for sharing. Would love to see a photo of what you made.

[toto]

Here's a photo from when I was first playing around. The basic gist is a WiFi smart plug (about $10) and a FreedomPop hotspot ($19.99). The data service was zero dollars per month, so the all-in cost was thirty bucks. (Well, I actually deployed this in a small DriBOX that cost another $15 or so.)

Anyway, total cost around $40 or $45, with a $0 monthly. 

[BrettKS]

9 minutes ago, toto said:

Here's a photo from when I was first playing around. The basic gist is a WiFi smart plug (about $10) and a FreedomPop hotspot ($19.99). The data service was zero dollars per month, so the all-in cost was thirty bucks. (Well, I actually deployed this in a small DriBOX that cost another $15 or so.)

Anyway, total cost around $40 or $45, with a $0 monthly. 

I like it. Using Freedompop's service is a great idea.

[smwash02]

I'd be interested though I'm in Texas.

I was planning on buying an IoT embedded device to couple with a switch but never got around it because I have Wi-Fi and there's cheaper options.

For $30 I bought this Kasa outdoor plug on Amazon and it's worked perfectly. You could easily couple it with a FreedomPop hot spot.

You can turn it on or off from the phone, set a schedule or tell it turn on in X hours, etc.

[Steve B]

I have my engine pre-heat plugged in through a thermostat that turns on at 40 degrees and off at 60. In coastal NJ that means it’s not running all that much in the day except Jan - Mar. I figure it keeps the engine compartment well above dew point at all times and the plane is always at a “startable” if not ideal temperature and it’s often 50+ degrees.

What is the concern with having the heater regularly on if you are flying fairy regularly?


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[jetdriven]

Actually there’s been a lot of discussion about leaving engine preheater is on in the winter, serious corrosion issues. Just turn it on a few hours before you plan on flying, if you don’t then turn it back off. A cold engine below 32F cannot corrode 

[Brian E.]

I use one of the KT-G3-A USA 4G GSM  variants that has the high amperage relays.  Unfortunately due to the low New England Winter temps I can't leave it on all the time and send a text 6 hours before flying. Next I need to configure channel 2 to fire up a ceramic heater to warm the cabin and avionics.  I'd prefer some sort of duct like a start cart that feeds through the pilots window. A simple man can only dream... 

[Steve B]

Hmmm - in that case I might need that remote switch!

 

Seriously though - I’m in a hangar and using a full engine heating system (Reiff) with the temperature probe measuring the general compartment (vs just the oil) - so I would think the engine compartment should actually be warm and dry as dew point for the winter air is way lower than the temps of even the coldest parts of the engine compartment.

 

I don’t follow what the source of increases moisture relative to the heating would be. I would think that from my engines perspective it’s as if I’m heating the whole hangar to a range of 40-60 degrees (which would be good, right?). Am I missing something?

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[gsxrpilot]

I just built one myself using this...

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07JQRC93V/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o09_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I little soldering, and I've got two ports one controlling my engine heater and one controlling a space heater in the cockpit. I put an ATT SIM card in it that costs about $100 per year for unlimited messages. I can turn either on or off with my phone and also check the status of either as well.

[amillet]

https://mooneyspace.com/topic/28111-should-one-leave-the-tanis-plugged-in-for-winter/?do=findComment&comment=463692

 

[jetdriven]

42 minutes ago, Steve B said:

Hmmm - in that case I might need that remote switch!

 

Seriously though - I’m in a hangar and using a full engine heating system (Reiff) with the temperature probe measuring the general compartment (vs just the oil) - so I would think the engine compartment should actually be warm and dry as dew point for the winter air is way lower than the temps of even the coldest parts of the engine compartment.

 

I don’t follow what the source of increases moisture relative to the heating would be. I would think that from my engines perspective it’s as if I’m heating the whole hangar to a range of 40-60 degrees (which would be good, right?). Am I missing something?

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Yes, warm air can hold more moisture. And metal Won’t  corrode below 32°. So it doesn’t have to be raining inside your engine to cause corrosion. However if you just leave it cold it won’t corrode. Cold air is drier than warm air. And when you get ready to fly turn on your Kasa remote plug with a hotspot like one of the previous posters. Brilliant idea and cheap. 

[carusoam]

Find the threads...

• monitoring the RH inside the engine.... yes some MSer went the distance...
• leaving the heat on unmonitored can be counterproductive...
• heating the engine and oil to 40°F has some benefits to lubrication and fuel evaporation getting the engine started...
• Venting the moisture out of the engine is important... leaving it in and keeping it warm... is bad...

WiFi is spreading everywhere... but only covers the half where my hangar isn’t...

Pay attention to how much load you plug into the switch...

The early cell switches were hand made and didn’t get designed to any particular standard...

plugging in an engine heater and cabin heater... shouldn’t light the plane on fire...

PP thoughts only, not an electrical engineer...

Best regards,

-a-

[ilovecornfields]

48 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

I just built one myself using this...

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07JQRC93V/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o09_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I little soldering, and I've got two ports one controlling my engine heater and one controlling a space heater in the cockpit. I put an ATT SIM card in it that costs about $100 per year for unlimited messages. I can turn either on or off with my phone and also check the status of either as well.

I have the same one with a T-mobile SIM card. Works flawlessly. I use the output to trigger this relay which seemed a little more robust.

Iot Relay - Enclosed High-Power... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00WV7GMA2?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

 

@BrettKS, I’ll still try out your switch. It’s really cold where I live in California. We’re talking 40s!

[takair]

a Couple of other thoughts to consider regarding leaving engine heat on all the time (not facts, just thoughts)......with heat on, I would expect the residual oil to be more viscous....and drain to the sump faster than a cool engine, potentially leaving the cam and cylinder walls unprotected longer than cold oil. (?)  Also, I have wondered if seals might deteriorate faster if constantly heated.....may depend on where they are in proximity to the heat elements.

On another note, finally have my own hangar, but no electricity.  With a nice generator and propane heat, it’s not bad, but haven’t sorted out how to pre-heat remotely.  I have a neighbor with a pricey solar set-up to power two sets of heaters on a Baron with a large battery bank.  Wondering if anybody has tackled that situation on a Mooney CB budget.  The BrettKS solution might be perfect if I can keep a small battery bank adequately charged to keep it alive and then run a sump heater for a couple of hours.  Anyone have that type of set-up?

[jetdriven]

Preheat, and engine drying are two separate issues. For the first, I bought a black max engine dehydrator. Keeps it dry. That’s the end of that. And for preheating, a Tanis on a remote cell switch. So instead of combining the work with one device, use two. After you stroke a check for over 30k for a new engine, you start thinking of ways to prevent that from happening again. Keep it dry inside. And warm it up before you crank it. The grand you spend on that you’ll get it back

[Ibra]

Can't you use a simple timer/calendar? it is far more reliable than something you remotely switch ON/OFF

[steingar]

11 hours ago, jetdriven said:

Actually there’s been a lot of discussion about leaving engine preheater is on in the winter, serious corrosion issues. Just turn it on a few hours before you plan on flying, if you don’t then turn it back off. A cold engine below 32F cannot corrode 

You put in your cowl plugs, cover the nose with your moving blankets.  Now your engine bay is heated.  If you had access to a heated hangar would you refuse for worries about corrosion?

[jetdriven]

I can’t afford a heated hanger, a regular pole barn hangar around here is 500 bucks a month. Like I said I have a dehydrator to take care of the water, so the only concern with the heater is for to prevent cold starts. However using engine heater thinking that that’s going to keep water from condensing in your engine, is true. However warmer air holds more grains of water per cubic meter then colder air, so now you have more water vapor suspended in air and it causes corrosion.  There is a reason humidity cabinets they test corrosion in are not cold. It does not have to precipitate inside your engine to corrode it.   Go look at the tools in your toolbox, usually they have rust all over them. I have snap on tools with rust on them in my toolbox. That correlates pretty directly with litters we remove that have worm trails and corrosion putting on them.  A friend of mine bought a M20J  that was stored in a hanger and had 4 hundred hours  since major about six years previous. The owner left the engine heater on all winter long and Minnesota. He ran it about 300 hours and several lifters were trashed along with the cam and the rest of the engine. Yes he flew it quite regular about 200 hours a year.

Use a real dryer to keep your engine dry. Use a real heater to heat your engine.

[aviatoreb]

I'm having an intense feeling of deja vu all over again.

Its like ground hog day here.

I'm having an intense feeling of deja vu all over again.

Its like ground hog day here.

[FlyingScot]

I haven't seen this mentioned before (maybe a flawed search?): I use a Netgear cellular modem and a Smartthings hub. That way the system is expandable and flexible - I have about 20 devices in the hangar routing through the hub (with switches, etc.), including engine and cabin heaters, temperature monitors (inside the cabin too), chargers, cameras and lights. Works great, is highly configurable, and accessible from anywhere. $10 a month cell data charge.