Factory Closed Down?

[cliffy]

Grid capacity on the top level is one thing

One item of electric distribution that was brought up a while back in a different thread is the capacity of the grid DOWN at the neighborhood level to deliver the quantities of electricity needed for a small neighborhood to recharge  even 50% ownership of EVs. 

Check into each house having 200 amps service(and many don't so their capacity would have to be upgraded furthering the burden on the local grid) and the local grid capacity if half are recharging at night at the same time. 

And that's only 50% market penetration. 

[Blue on Top]

5 hours ago, mike_elliott said:

Thats unfair, Ron. The land owner has to cash the check and pay taxes. At least for now.

 

LOL.  I would have just laughed at your comment @mike_elliott but I guess I'm out of emotion for today.  I just get so emotional, baby.  OMG!  I'm turning into Mr. John Baker!  Oh wait, that wouldn't be a bad thing … it would be a great upgrade for me.

[chinoguym20]

I hope the rumor isn’t confirmed (does anyone here know?), but has the factory finally closed for good?  If so, what a shame for all the good people and such great aircraft.  Maybe someone will buy the brand out of the remnants and stick it on a Light Sport or something.  

[mike_elliott]

43 minutes ago, chinoguym20 said:

I hope the rumor isn’t confirmed (does anyone here know?), but has the factory finally closed for good?  If so, what a shame for all the good people and such great aircraft.  Maybe someone will buy the brand out of the remnants and stick it on a Light Sport or something.  

Are you starting the rumor?

[chinoguym20]

No, just putting 2+2 together based on “its busted.. Im guessing another bill hasnt been paid, unfortunately.” 

[Yourpilotincommand]

Are there any cars in the factory parking lot? I’m needing a part that Lasar has to order from the factory. Lasar tells me they placed an order to Mooney for a dozen of this particular part.

[N9201A]

I hope the rumor isn’t confirmed (does anyone here know?), but has the factory finally closed for good?  If so, what a shame for all the good people and such great aircraft.  Maybe someone will buy the brand out of the remnants and stick it on a Light Sport or something.  

Just to be clear, “the rumor” you “hope” is NOT “confirmed” is your suggestion:
The website is down, so factory is “finally closed for good”?

Five minutes ago, a very well-respected Mooney vendor well-known on this site quoted me a “from factory” price and delivery date for a part. They said the factory advised it was “between web hosts.”

Looks like your “rumor,” which seems to me more like a hypothesis (but I’ll defer to those with a dog in the fight, this strikes me as a potato v. potahto skirmish) is stillborn.

[AUWDE]

As a potential new plane owner how would this news influence all the current owners if you were looking to purchase? The basis of the question is how many parts need to come from the factory for routine maintenance or common repairs? 

 

[carusoam]

Gents,

don’t get dragged in by Chino...

The clouds have been blocking his part of the Mooney world for an inordinate amount of time... 

 

Yes, bad news, real or fictional does make people think twice before pulling the trigger...

Serious people are always thinking twice anyway...

MS has many X-Mooney employees and family too...

Not all are embittered by their experience...

We even have the two people that created the Mooney Movie....’boots on the ground’.... way cool if you haven’t seen it...

It is better to have a healthy Mooney factory than a closed one...

 

 

Auwde,

the Mooney plant has a history of being closed for various reasons in its life... usually economy driven...

When it closed in Y2K... I bought a pre-flown M20C... Most of the wear parts I ever needed were available from aircraft hardware suppliers and Lycoming....

Today, for the more challenging to get parts... we have something called owner supplied parts... where a community the size of MS has been successful at properly building the required parts...

During the Great Recession,  The plant was down for some time again... I bought a pre-flown M20R...

 

So... people looking to buy a plane will want to do there homework... if buying a pre-flown Mooney, the plant being closed doesn’t change things very much.... oddly...
 

Talking up the points about the plant being closed will wash out the weaker hands at the plane buying table... somewhat artificially lowering the prices... by making fewer buyers available...

Even if the plant is forced to close... nobody benefits from the rumors...

2020 is going to be a tough year... We have experienced a very sharp recession... fast down,  and a pretty quick up trend for the economy... unemployment soared... a pandemic has spread across the globe...

Of course, Main Street is separate from Wall Street...  Buying a plane will be more challenging for main streeters...

If you are looking to buy a pre-flown Mooney... thank people that point out problems at the factory... They are helping you with your price negotiations... 

PP thoughts only, not a plane sales guy... or sales disruptor...

If buying a plane and speed and efficiency are important....

Go Mooney!

Best regards,

-a-

 

[EricJ]

4 hours ago, N9201A said:

Five minutes ago, a very well-respected Mooney vendor well-known on this site quoted me a “from factory” price and delivery date for a part. They said the factory advised it was “between web hosts.”

Maxwell's website is also changing and looking a lot more factory-like.   It looks like the publications, SIs, SBs, etc., are moving there but aren't quite up yet.

 

Edited July 9, 2020 by EricJ

[Skates97]

On 7/5/2020 at 12:05 PM, mike_elliott said:

Well, I wont get into a TSLAQ debate with the shorts or naysayers, suffice it to say I used to race Porsche's and Datsuns, have been lucky enough to be able to drive and own some very fine cars and without question, the electric car makes even the nicest offering from Lexus feel old and antiquated. Great Software can do this to  you. Dont go test drive one, they are hard on your wallet. Fortunately, my TSLA stock has paid for half of mine already

Wait until Sept 15th, when possibly a greater than 500whr/Kg battery is announced, then an electric GA plane becomes viable. We should know of Mooney's future soon.

 

On 7/5/2020 at 1:36 PM, MooneyMitch said:

I absolutely adore riding in my friends Tesla X.   Ya talk about acceleration!!!!!  Holly cow Batman!!!!

Mike, if you think the electric cars make Lexus look old and antiquated, and Mitch, if you're impressed by the Tesla X, hang onto your hats late this year and into the next year. Cadillac is going to make Tesla look old and antiquated. Got to check out a 2021 Escalade at our store recently, I don't even have words for the technology in it. Yes, it is "currently" a gas model, but the all electric Cadillacs are coming, and they are something else...

[mike_elliott]

I'm sure Caddy will have their typical luxo offering ( I've owned 4 new caddies in my day as a data point), and from a technology standpoint, they will start about 6 years behind TSLA per Sandy Munro. Battery technology is huge, as it's all about range. Once GM ( down 35% this year) learns what Tesla knows ( up over 300% this year), it will be game on if they haven't burned thru their $ catching up. I hope they and F are successful, but they, VW, Mercedes all know they are facing a very uphill challenge that developed while they arrogantly dismissed the wack job wanting to land on Mars. Fiat Chryslers plans are to keep paying the Carbon offset big from what I have heard. The ADA's are not happy with TSLA at all, of course, as they have disrupted that sales model also, and why Tesla's are currently banned from being sold in Texas and I believe Michigan. You have to love a lobby, in spite of whats in the interest of the consumer.

 

[MooneyMitch]

“Don’t get dragged in by Chino”

“Even if the factory is forced to close....nobody benefits from the rumors..”

 I’ve been thinking on and off today, what words to offer up for Chino’s rumor post this morning........ Anthony supplied the words .

 What possible good comes from rumors ...... none!   It’s best always to know the facts and truths before jumping to conclusions,  or making judgments based on someone’s  false or misleading information,  whether intentional or not .  This holds true in ANY topic !

 

[MooneyMitch]

1 hour ago, Skates97 said:

 

Mike, if you think the electric cars make Lexus look old and antiquated, and Mitch, if you're impressed by the Tesla X, hang onto your hats late this year and into the next year. Cadillac is going to make Tesla look old and antiquated. Got to check out a 2021 Escalade at our store recently, I don't even have words for the technology in it. Yes, it is "currently" a gas model, but the all electric Cadillacs are coming, and they are something else...

 I’ll check out the Cadillac and yes, an electric Cadillac would be awesome !  

 Will it make Tesla look old and antiquated? Hmmmmm and wow I say!!

[N9201A]

I'm sure Caddy will have their typical luxo offering ( I've owned 4 new caddies in my day as a data point), and from a technology standpoint, they will start about 6 years behind TSLA per Sandy Munro. Battery technology is huge, as it's all about range. Once GM ( down 35% this year) learns what Tesla knows ( up over 300% this year), it will be game on if they haven't burned thru their $ catching up. I hope they and F are successful, but they, VW, Mercedes all know they are facing a very uphill challenge that developed while they arrogantly dismissed the wack job wanting to land on Mars.
 

I saw my first GM all-electric car hum by in about 1997 or 1998. The oddly-named “Impact” (I guess “Crash” was taken, but didn’t they check on “NoVa”?).

Sure, I’ll give Elon props for moving the ball (who would engine manufacturers want to abandon building engine-building?). That said, Tesla is about to find the downsides of being a business with hundreds of millions that requires billions. I wouldn’t readily dismiss Daimler, Ford and the other long-term market players. Eventually, even a sleeping giant does wake up...

[steingar]

36 minutes ago, MooneyMitch said:

 I’ll check out the Cadillac and yes, an electric Cadillac would be awesome !  

 Will it make Tesla look old and antiquated? Hmmmmm and wow I say!!

I bet it will also make Tesla look parsimonious.

 

[MooneyMitch]

3 minutes ago, steingar said:

I bet it will also make Tesla look parsimonious.

 

Dang, I had to look that one up! 

I’m still learning stuff in my 4th quarter!! 

[MooneyMitch]

30 minutes ago, N9201A said:

 

I saw my first GM all-electric car hum by in about 1997 or 1998. The oddly-named “Impact” (I guess “Crash” was taken, but didn’t they check on “NoVa”?).

Sure, I’ll give Elon props for moving the ball (who would engine manufacturers want to abandon building engine-building?). That said, Tesla is about to find the downsides of being a business with hundreds of millions that requires billions. I wouldn’t readily dismiss Daimler, Ford and the other long-term market players. Eventually, even a sleeping giant does wake up...

 

It takes a ball mover to prompt de  utters to get wit da program! 

I still love my hoodie!! 

 

[mike_elliott]

12 hours ago, N9201A said:

 

I saw my first GM all-electric car hum by in about 1997 or 1998. The oddly-named “Impact” (I guess “Crash” was taken, but didn’t they check on “NoVa”?).

Sure, I’ll give Elon props for moving the ball (who would engine manufacturers want to abandon building engine-building?). That said, Tesla is about to find the downsides of being a business with hundreds of millions that requires billions. I wouldn’t readily dismiss Daimler, Ford and the other long-term market players. Eventually, even a sleeping giant does wake up...

 

Elon didnt just move the ball, he changed the game, made the rules, and set quite a bar right under the arrogant noses of the now little 3. Tesla not only found out about the downsides of being in a business with hundreds of millions that require billions, he now has way more billions than Ford, GM and Chrysler Fiat COMBINED. Tesla is the 18th largest Company in the world. Ford and GM are not on the list even. They are about to find out the downsides of being in a business that requires billions they dont have. Their market position ( lack of free cash and long term debt, declining sales) should be very troubling to their leadership. I wont dismiss them, just they really are in a very very difficult position now. They are not the giants and have to spend billions in R&D, marketing, etc to play the new game. I do not doubt they will have to be selling their offerings at a loss to attempt to garner market share, and that hasnt worked so well for the Bolt

The giants to watch that may become real players are Apple, Google and Amazon in this new, AI driven space.

https://www.dogsofthedow.com/largest-companies-by-market-cap.htm

, 

[steingar]

11 hours ago, MooneyMitch said:

Dang, I had to look that one up! 

I’m still learning stuff in my 4th quarter!! 

Glad to be of service.

[EricJ]

2 hours ago, mike_elliott said:

Elon didnt just move the ball, he changed the game, made the rules, and set quite a bar right under the arrogant noses of the now little 3. Tesla not only found out about the downsides of being in a business with hundreds of millions that require billions, he now has way more billions than Ford, GM and Chrysler Fiat COMBINED. Tesla is the 18th largest Company in the world. Ford and GM are not on the list even. They are about to find out the downsides of being in a business that requires billions they dont have. Their market position ( lack of free cash and long term debt, declining sales) should be very troubling to their leadership. I wont dismiss them, just they really are in a very very difficult position now. They are not the giants and have to spend billions in R&D, marketing, etc to play the new game. I do not doubt they will have to be selling their offerings at a loss to attempt to garner market share, and that hasnt worked so well for the Bolt

The giants to watch that may become real players are Apple, Google and Amazon in this new, AI driven space.

https://www.dogsofthedow.com/largest-companies-by-market-cap.htm

, 

I remember when people talked that way about the guys running Enron.   Or Bernie Ebbers.   Or...   

 

[mike_elliott]

6 minutes ago, EricJ said:

I remember when people talked that way about the guys running Enron.   Or Bernie Ebbers.   Or...   

 

You must be thinking of Trevor Milton of Nikola  Heck, Tesla might make more profit selling satin "shorts" than GM this quarter

[Missile=Awesome]

2 minutes ago, mike_elliott said:

You must be thinking of Trevor Milton of Nikola  Heck, Tesla might make more profit selling satin "shorts" than GM this quarter

Mike, I get that you are a Tesla fan boy.  Nothing wrong with that.  How many quarters has Tesla made a profit in the history of the company?  Is there a shortage of oil/fuel in the next 100 years that I am unaware of?  Hating on Big three to me is a little like what ChinoGuy rolls.  What is the point?

Why has thread creep entered into electric cars?  Is Tesla making electric engines for aircraft?  This thread was about the direction of Mooney the manufacturer and has crept into Cirrus and now Tesla.  I get Cirrus.  Tesla, not so much...

My questions are legitimate.  I am NOT attacking you.  It appeared to me that YOU were attacking the U.S. auto industry.  It is clear that electric cars are viable and getting better.  That is great.  Our Mooney aircraft operate on ICE.  It appears that you disagree with ICE engines and want electric to replace them.  I do not.  The market will pick who wins, unless the government chooses for us.  If we care about the environment why aren’t diesel semis operating on Natural Gas?

Why hasn’t a lead alternative been certified?

[jetdriven]

Missile, have you driven or ridden in a Tesla car?  Because seeing is believing, the build quality and features make my BMW 335i feel like a Chevy Citation. Theyre really just that much better.

theyve put more innovation into their products than any other carmaker. Theyre literally a couple generations ahead. And the self-driving autopilot saves lives.

 

 

[cliffy]

13 hours ago, MooneyMitch said:

Dang, I had to look that one up! 

I’m still learning stuff in my 4th quarter!! 

One of those words lost in time

I tend to be a Philodox type of person myself while some here have a morosoph personality

Didn't realize that Tesla was as big in market cap as the list shows BUT has it actually made any money yet?

If Mooney had made some money then maybe they would still be in business

Could this be a glance sideways at Tesla and viability long term? 

Businesses have to make money or they're gone.

Beyond my crystal ball gazing ability

Edited July 10, 2020 by cliffy