IO-360 replacement, what to install off engine before mounting on plane?

[jkarch]

So my bad cam saga is finally coming to an end with a new engine. When the engine arrives, should the governor and vacuum pump be installed prior to mounting on the engine? How about baffling? Any experience dealing with the delivery of engines as well? Lycoming says there is a “tip n tell” which says if the engine has been abused. If the box looks good and the tip n tell isn’t triggered would you sign for it or should the driver wait to open up the box? Lastly I received recommendations for a preoiler, is this better than Lycoming’s standard preoiling service bulletin where you prime the oil lines with the spark plugs removed and mixture and fuel selector off and crank until you see oil on the lines, then crank again to get 20 PSI of oil pressure twice?

[ArtVandelay]

I’d carefully check the box, especially the corners, if it’s good, then accept it. They weigh 400lbs, if they have fallen, you’ll know it.

I would install prop governor, etc before installation, don’t forget to mount engine frame first, then to firewall.

I redid baffling , repair, repainted, etc

I replaced the control cables

I stripped the engine frame and repainted

 

 

Tom

 

[PT20J]

The engine comes bolted down to a pallet covered with wood frame and heavy cardboard and a foam "donut" on top of the engine inside the carton for cushioning. Unless the carton is seriously damaged, everything inside will be OK. The tip 'n tell is a little arrow with plastic beads that can only flow one way and indicate if the carton has been upended. Open carefully as you will need the carton to return the core. We had the driver wait until we opened the carton and made sure it was good and then we signed for it. Unbolt the engine from the pallet and lift out with an engine hoist.

Put the old and new engines side by side and transfer parts you are reusing from the old to the new. Commonly missed are the fitting for the oil pressure sender and the sniffle valve. Install all the components on the accessory case -- it's much easier now than with the engine installed. And don't lose the barrel nuts used to bolt the baffles to the cylinders -- they are special Lycoming parts (Spruce stocks them) and cost $35.60 each. (I spent an hour looking for one that fell out of the cylinder and rolled across the shop floor into oblivion). Baffles can be attached with the engine installed. 

When you remove the old engine mounts, note the position of the shims so you can reassemble with them in the same position. Use new LORD mounts. Some install the engine mount to the engine and then the whole assy to the firewall. We didn't do this as the engine mount was in good condition and we never removed it or the wiring attached to it. We had no trouble attaching the engine to the mount on a 1994 M20J.

Skip

 

[jkarch]

  On 9/20/2019 at 2:34 PM, ArtVandelay said:

I’d carefully check the box, especially the corners, if it’s good, then accept it. They weigh 400lbs, if they have fallen, you’ll know it.

I would install prop governor, etc before installation, don’t forget to mount engine frame first, then to firewall.

I redid baffling , repair, repainted, etc

I replaced the control cables

I stripped the engine frame and repainted

 

 

Tom

 

Expand  

Hi Tom, unfortunately it seems my mechanic already reinstalled the mount I inspected and repainted, and the new LORF lower mounts and shims are waiting for the engine. Is there any other reason to have the mount off?

[ArtVandelay]

  On 9/20/2019 at 6:53 PM, jkarch said:

Hi Tom, unfortunately it seems my mechanic already reinstalled the mount I inspected and repainted, and the new LORF lower mounts and shims are waiting for the engine. Is there any other reason to have the mount off?

It’s a lot easier to install engine to mount, then mount to firewall.

If you ever see a Mooney with damage firewall (footwells especially), you know the mechanic wasn’t familiar with Mooney.


Tom

[Shadrach]

  On 9/20/2019 at 6:53 PM, jkarch said:

Hi Tom, unfortunately it seems my mechanic already reinstalled the mount I inspected and repainted, and the new LORF lower mounts and shims are waiting for the engine. Is there any other reason to have the mount off?

Expand  

 

Edit:  My recollection below was wrong.  I corrected it in a later post.

The mount bolt bosses at the fire are angled.  You cannot push the bolts through the firewile and rock/slide the mount over the bolts.  The mount must be held against the fire wall and positioned so the bolts can be pushed through from the cabin side of the firewall.  This can likely be done with the mount on the engine but why make things harder than necessary?

Edited September 21, 2019 by Shadrach

[Andy95W]

Ross- Because the Mooney factory actually recommends it.

[PT20J]

Might be true for a C or D as indicated in the reference. The J service manual is different. As I said, we had no problem R&R ing the engine without removing the engine mount from the airframe.

Skip

[Shadrach]

  On 9/20/2019 at 10:50 PM, Andy95W said:

Ross- Because the Mooney factory actually recommends it.

Expand  

I removed the engine and mount together but during install I found it easier to put the mount on first. I wonder if perhaps the factory came around to the same way of thinking in the late 70s.

[Guest]

  On 9/20/2019 at 2:19 PM, jkarch said:

So my bad cam saga is finally coming to an end with a new engine. When the engine arrives, should the governor and vacuum pump be installed prior to mounting on the engine? How about baffling? Any experience dealing with the delivery of engines as well? Lycoming says there is a “tip n tell” which says if the engine has been abused. If the box looks good and the tip n tell isn’t triggered would you sign for it or should the driver wait to open up the box? Lastly I received recommendations for a preoiler, is this better than Lycoming’s standard preoiling service bulletin where you prime the oil lines with the spark plugs removed and mixture and fuel selector off and crank until you see oil on the lines, then crank again to get 20 PSI of oil pressure twice?

Expand  

I’m a strong advocate of pre-oiling the engine with a pressure pot.  Your engine is worth $30K and a pressure pot is worth $100, cheap insurance in my opinion.  

Clarence

[N201MKTurbo]

I have hung about 10 Lycomings on Mooneys. You absolutely want to attach the mount to the engine before you attach the mount and engine to the firewall. Make some “bullets” from some bolts by grinding a point on one end and cutting the heads off. Drive them through the mount holes then drive the bullets out with your new bolts. It goes on very easy. Mount all the accessories and hoses before hanging the engine. It will make your life a lot easier.

Im torn between putting the top bolts or the bottom bolts on first. It kind of depends on how well your mount lines up. A trial fit of the mount before you attach the engine to the mount will tell you which way is easier.

[ArtVandelay]

  On 9/20/2019 at 11:54 PM, Shadrach said:

I removed the engine and mount together but during install I found it easier to put the mount on first. I wonder if perhaps the factory came around to the same way of thinking in the late 70s.

For my 78J, we did the opposite, removing was a hassle, you can’t get the lower bolts out because they hit the firewall. My AP said attaching frame first, then mounting to firewall was much easier, didn’t even need my help


Tom

[Shadrach]

@Andy95W @jkarch @ArtVandelay

I misspoke earlier. In looking at some old pics, We installed with the mount on.  Bottom mounts first.  The prop linkage and other cables were done with the engine tilted forward on the lower mount supported by an engine hoist.

[PT20J]

If you are changing from an A3B6D to an A3B6 don’t forget to put the strap on the ignition switch to ground out the right mag during start.

Skip

[jkarch]

  On 9/20/2019 at 7:07 PM, ArtVandelay said:

It’s a lot easier to install engine to mount, then mount to firewall.

If you ever see a Mooney with damage firewall (footwells especially), you know the mechanic wasn’t familiar with Mooney.


Tom

Expand  

Unfortunately it seems mine was a victim in 2005-a small ding on both foot wells.

[jkarch]

  On 9/21/2019 at 2:32 AM, PT20J said:

If you are changing from an A3B6D to an A3B6 don’t forget to put the strap on the ignition switch to ground out the right mag during start.

Skip

Expand  

Yup. That’s all done and tested. Only impulse coupler mag starts the engine. Thank you!

[jkarch]

  On 9/21/2019 at 1:29 AM, Shadrach said:

@Andy95W @jkarch @ArtVandelay

I misspoke earlier. In looking at some old pics, We installed with the mount on.  Bottom mounts first.  The prop linkage and other cables were done with the engine tilted forward on the lower mount supported by an engine hoist.

Expand  

That makes sense. Have the engine mated to the lower mounts but not tightened and move the engine forward to do the cables, etc.

[jkarch]

  On 9/21/2019 at 12:45 AM, ArtVandelay said:

For my 78J, we did the opposite, removing was a hassle, you can’t get the lower bolts out because they hit the firewall. My AP said attaching frame first, then mounting to firewall was much easier, didn’t even need my help


Tom

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As I recall the nuts were mounted in the cabin and the bolts go through the mount and firewall. That’s how it was installed in 2005. It was hard to thread on the lock washers in the footwell by feel alone. Is it installed backwards?

[jkarch]

  On 9/21/2019 at 12:19 AM, M20Doc said:

I’m a strong advocate of pre-oiling the engine with a pressure pot.  Your engine is worth $30K and a pressure pot is worth $100, cheap insurance in my opinion.  

Clarence

Expand  

Clarence, funny you should mention. I called Lycoming tech support today and the guy said basically follow the service instruction. When I asked about opening up one of those ports to blast with oil he said the only way the oil would reach the cam is to blast it in there. But he specifically recommended just to do the preoil procedure. Thoughts?  

[jkarch]

  On 9/21/2019 at 12:33 AM, N201MKTurbo said:

I have hung about 10 Lycomings on Mooneys. You absolutely want to attach the mount to the engine before you attach the mount and engine to the firewall. Make some “bullets” from some bolts by grinding a point on one end and cutting the heads off. Drive them through the mount holes then drive the bullets out with your new bolts. It goes on very easy. Mount all the accessories and hoses before hanging the engine. It will make your life a lot easier.

Im torn between putting the top bolts or the bottom bolts on first. It kind of depends on how well your mount lines up. A trial fit of the mount before you attach the engine to the mount will tell you which way is easier.

Expand  

I’ll ask my mechanic if he thinks I should remove the mount and try again. Will I need new bolts if I do this? I think he had to loosen it once to get the bottom LORD mounts in place.

[jkarch]

  On 9/20/2019 at 11:54 PM, Shadrach said:

I removed the engine and mount together but during install I found it easier to put the mount on first. I wonder if perhaps the factory came around to the same way of thinking in the late 70s.

Expand  

Thanks for that information! The manual section will come in handy.

[jkarch]

  On 9/20/2019 at 11:38 PM, PT20J said:

Might be true for a C or D as indicated in the reference. The J service manual is different. As I said, we had no problem R&R ing the engine without removing the engine mount from the airframe.

Skip

Expand  

This does seem to show the LORD mounts connecting the mount to the engine before installing to the firewall right?

[jkarch]

  On 9/20/2019 at 7:19 PM, Shadrach said:

 

Edit:  My recollection below was wrong.  I corrected it in a later post.

The mount bolt bosses at the fire are angled.  You cannot push the bolts through the firewile and rock/slide the mount over the bolts.  The mount must be held against the fire wall and positioned so the bolts can be pushed through from the cabin side of the firewall.  This can likely be done with the mount on the engine but why make things harder than necessary?

Expand  

So when I removed the engine the nuts were in the cabin side. It’s been like that for many years with the old engine. Was it installed wrong then?

[jkarch]

  On 9/20/2019 at 6:43 PM, PT20J said:

The engine comes bolted down to a pallet covered with wood frame and heavy cardboard and a foam "donut" on top of the engine inside the carton for cushioning. Unless the carton is seriously damaged, everything inside will be OK. The tip 'n tell is a little arrow with plastic beads that can only flow one way and indicate if the carton has been upended. Open carefully as you will need the carton to return the core. We had the driver wait until we opened the carton and made sure it was good and then we signed for it. Unbolt the engine from the pallet and lift out with an engine hoist.

Put the old and new engines side by side and transfer parts you are reusing from the old to the new. Commonly missed are the fitting for the oil pressure sender and the sniffle valve. Install all the components on the accessory case -- it's much easier now than with the engine installed. And don't lose the barrel nuts used to bolt the baffles to the cylinders -- they are special Lycoming parts (Spruce stocks them) and cost $35.60 each. (I spent an hour looking for one that fell out of the cylinder and rolled across the shop floor into oblivion). Baffles can be attached with the engine installed. 

When you remove the old engine mounts, note the position of the shims so you can reassemble with them in the same position. Use new LORD mounts. Some install the engine mount to the engine and then the whole assy to the firewall. We didn't do this as the engine mount was in good condition and we never removed it or the wiring attached to it. We had no trouble attaching the engine to the mount on a 1994 M20J.

Skip

 

Expand  

Skip, do you have photos of the baffle nuts? I still don’t see them on the old engine.

[ArtVandelay]

  On 9/21/2019 at 4:34 AM, jkarch said:

As I recall the nuts were mounted in the cabin and the bolts go through the mount and firewall. That’s how it was installed in 2005. It was hard to thread on the lock washers in the footwell by feel alone. Is it installed backwards?

I was referring to the engine shock mount bolts, in your picture you have them in place. Editorial comment: I was shocked by the size of the frame mount bolts as compared with the shock mount bolts, they seem grossly undersized in comparison.

 

 

Tom