What I have learned about LED landing lights

[Igor_U]

6 hours ago, PTK said:

The led landing light with best data that I have seen is the illumivation lazr. This is by the former Lopresti which now is Whelen. If I go the led route this  would be my choice. Whelen bought Lopresti and dropped the price also. 

https://www.illumi-vation.com/product-page/mooney-m20-c-d-e-f-g-j-led-landing-light

I'm surprised no one commented on these... How much were before they dropped the price?

I find spending $2k for my F (with 2 PAR46) just plain stupid. But then Lopresti are always proud of their products .

[hypertech]

Its an absurd price for four emitters.  And if you zoom in on it, the workmanship of the soldering, etc is not all that great either.

[PT20J]

PMA, TSO, Owner produced parts. It can be confusing and it always seems to come up whenever LED lights are discussed. Here's a pretty good summary:

https://www.aviationpros.com/home/article/10385867/parts-primer

 

 

[PTK]

On 5/24/2019 at 4:25 AM, ArtVandelay said:

I don’t have any holes in mine, but mine were installed by Mooney Mart. I like to see a picture of yours. I’ve seen a number of installations, the factory I think doesn’t have the frame bracket.


Tom

Three holes at the top on mine.

Edited May 25, 2019 by PTK

[PT20J]

40 minutes ago, PTK said:

Three holes at the top on mine.

These are drain holes. Should be at the bottom. Looks like your lens is upside down.

Skip

[FloridaMan]

I have a Whalen par46 in my m20f and 2x teledyne par36s in my rocket. The teledynes are far, far brighter 

[MikeOH]

Happy AeroLites SunSetter Fusion 46LR customer here

[glenn reynolds]

I run LEDs;  two whelen taxi lights for the wider angle and two whelen landing lights in my tks ovation.  Whelen told me the only difference is the corrugation of the front lense to provide a wider illumination angle for the taxi light.  I fly with the landing lights off and the taxi lights on.  I absolutely turn on the landing light on final as I have spotted animals on the runway environment on short final.  I really like the fact that the LED lights do not melt off the ice as it allows me to gauge how severe a challenge the TKS system is working against as the rest of the plane is ice free and I have had up to an inch of ice covering the wing lights.  I found the comments about rising temperatures and declining output to make a lot of sense and was surprised at how heavy the heat sink is on the back side of the whelen LED lights is which is now explained.  My take away is with longer service life and lower power draw I'm keen to have the taxi lights on when the plane is airborne.  I now have six hundred hours on the Whelen LED and can recommend them.  

[cliffy]

On 5/24/2019 at 2:20 PM, PT20J said:

PMA, TSO, Owner produced parts. It can be confusing and it always seems to come up whenever LED lights are discussed. Here's a pretty good summary:

https://www.aviationpros.com/home/article/10385867/parts-primer

 

 

Good article by one who was the GURU of light a/c maintenance from the FAA for years and years. Unfortunately he passed away a long time ago. 

Its the "Standard Parts"  that get most folks every time.  Landing light bulbs (as defined in the Parts Manual) by a number (4509) are made to an industry standard. A 4509 bulb can be made by several different manufacturers because its design is codified by an industry standard (sealed beam. wattage, type of emitter, size, shape, etc) . It is legal to install on a certified airplane just because it is made to an industry standard like an SAE AN, MS number. It needs no PMA, STC or anything else to be legal.

LED light bulbs have no such "STANDARD DESIGN" available from a recognized association such as SAE which is required to be classed as a "standard part". Therefore, "technically", it can't be installed on a certified airframe unless its part of an approved STC package. Just sayin', YMMV

Here's a question- Why do you suppose Whelan spent so much money on a STCs for their LED light systems? Could it be because that's the only way to make LED lighting legal to install on certified airplanes? 

[PT20J]

1 hour ago, cliffy said:

Good article by one who was the GURU of light a/c maintenance from the FAA for years and years. Unfortunately he passed away a long time ago. 

Its the "Standard Parts"  that get most folks every time.  Landing light bulbs (as defined in the Parts Manual) by a number (4509) are made to an industry standard. A 4509 bulb can be made by several different manufacturers because its design is codified by an industry standard (sealed beam. wattage, type of emitter, size, shape, etc) . It is legal to install on a certified airplane just because it is made to an industry standard like an SAE AN, MS number. It needs no PMA, STC or anything else to be legal.

LED light bulbs have no such "STANDARD DESIGN" available from a recognized association such as SAE which is required to be classed as a "standard part". Therefore, "technically", it can't be installed on a certified airframe unless its part of an approved STC package. Just sayin', YMMV

Here's a question- Why do you suppose Whelan spent so much money on a STCs for their LED light systems? Could it be because that's the only way to make LED lighting legal to install on certified airplanes? 

Great clarification, thanks.  Whelen has both PMA docs and STC docs on their website. Can the lights be legally installed with a logbook entry because of the PMA, or do they require a 337 to apply the STC?

Skip

[cliffy]

A PMA (Parts Manufacturing Approval) only allows them to make the part for sale to certified  airplanes (remember, LEDs do not qualify as standard parts). The STC (Supplemental Type Certificate, modifying the airplanes approved Type Certificate, (i.e, incandescent light bulbs that the airplane was certified with and they ARE standard parts) allows the LED part to be installed on a certified airplane. An STC will also spell out what airplanes (AML) that the STC is applicable to or what a/c parts can be replaced by the new part.  Think about a new engine monitor system that replaces all your original engine gauges or the AML that shows what airplanes can install the new Trutrak autopilot (AML, Approved Model List). Each has an STC for installation on certified airplanes. Each has a PMA to allow it to be manufactured for sale to certified airplanes. The STC must be signed off on a 337 in each case, upon installation.

[Fastglasair 1]

XeVision has just unveiled a new Par-36 LED with active cooling, sustained 11,000 lumens and about 322,000 Candela. 10 degrees primary beam. Because of the active cooling there is no degradation of output. They do have lab certified testing and prove these claims. www.XeVision.com                                   The unit total depth installed is about 1/2 inches less than a typical HID landing light. It also has a phenomenal strobe mode, much better than wig-wag.

[PilotX]

5 hours ago, Fastglasair 1 said:

XeVision has just unveiled a new Par-36 LED with active cooling, sustained 11,000 lumens and about 322,000 Candela. 10 degrees primary beam.Because of the active cooling there is no degradation of output. They do have lab certified testing and prove these claims. www.XeVision.com                                   The unit total depth installed is about 1/2 inches less than a typical HID landing light. It also has a phenomenal strobe mode, much better than wig-wag.

They must think we have a 4’ x 4’ area (and a stack of $100’s to match) to install that thing. Having stuck my average size hands in the tiny holes that the Bravo has taxi and landing lights, I am not certain that this would fit. Sure would be a pain in the butt to run new wires too. 

[EricJ]

2 hours ago, PilotX said:

They must think we have a 4’ x 4’ area (and a stack of $100’s to match) to install that thing. Having stuck my average size hands in the tiny holes that the Bravo has taxi and landing lights, I am not certain that this would fit. Sure would be a pain in the butt to run new wires too. 

Plus you'd have to make sure the space has sufficient ventilation inflow and outflow so that the active cooler works.  

[Fastglasair 1]

2 hours ago, PilotX said:

They must think we have a 4’ x 4’ area (and a stack of $100’s to match) to install that thing. Having stuck my average size hands in the tiny holes that the Bravo has taxi and landing lights, I am not certain that this would fit. Sure would be a pain in the butt to run new wires too. 

Why run new wires, it has the same current requirements as a 4509 incandescent, 100 watts, it can be operated 12/14 or 24/28 electrical systems.

[Fastglasair 1]

14 minutes ago, EricJ said:

Plus you'd have to make sure the space has sufficient ventilation inflow and outflow so that the active cooler works.  

Yes you are right, not in a sealed area, just some air movement allowed through the wing. It is upgradeable and repairable being modular, also the optics are in a sealed area flooded with nitrogen so condensation can never be an issue. The more expensive units from Aero LED and AVEO Engineering are similarly priced but throw away units. WAT (Whelen /Lopresti) want about $2000 for their HID conversions and about $700 for their higher end LED. 322,000 Candela is 2.5 to 3X the distance performance of any other product currently on the market. With 1Lux available out to 1/3 mile.

[cliffy]

Might have some issues with heat both on their plug and wires and the bulb itself if one tries to install

same in the cowl nose bowl with its close proximity to the exhaust stack especially in short bodies

[Yetti]

There are better choices for high amp connections

[carusoam]

Welcome aboard fastglas…

Sounds like you know more about these lights than a casual PP…

Are you an LED guru?

Best regards,

-a-

[Fastglasair 1]

2 hours ago, cliffy said:

Might have some issues with heat both on their plug and wires and the bulb itself if one tries to install

same in the cowl nose bowl with its close proximity to the exhaust stack especially in short bodies

The cable is high temp Silicone, the connector is not plastic and safety wire locking compatible. This is VERY well engineered, many years in development. That's a more than 10 amp 2 gold pins rated Dsub. On the website you can see it a spinning animation. www.xevision.com/led_aircraft.html

The lamp assembly is all CNC'd and mostly black anodized aluminum. Not thermal insulating powder coated heat sinking as many are.

The AEROLED high power units get up to 180 degrees F on the back within 15 minutes, ours can be held in your hand after hours of use, due to active cooling.

[Fastglasair 1]

2 hours ago, Yetti said:

There are better choices for high amp connections

Sorry, have to disagree there, it's a 10 + amps 2 gold pin Dsub connector.

[Fastglasair 1]

42 minutes ago, carusoam said:

Welcome aboard fastglas…

Sounds like you know more about these lights than a casual PP…

Are you an LED guru?

Best regards,

-a-

Well, we've been developing this product for quite a few years. Waiting until we could compare our new LED performance to the 50 W (2004) and 75 W (2007) watt HID. We've been offering aircraft HID since 2002 (35 W). There was no point in another "me too"  general aviation LED product with inferior performance compared to HID.  We have been in aviation lighting for more than 20 years, mostly selling to large multinationals & military and frequently out of the USA. This our new patented heatsink LED technology, is disruptive to the current market. 2.5 to 3X the Candela, (Candela and Candlepower are basically equivalent metrics) Lumens, Lux performance of anything currently on the market. We have sustained FULL output performance. The other LED products dim significantly as they warm up, often loosing more than 1/2 their rated output in 10 to 15 minutes.

We also have 3 operating modes, High, Strobe (XeStrobe) and low (about 1/2) all modes can be selected by momentary removal of powered from the light. No other light of this 4.5" diameter can produce 322,000 Candela with a more than 10 degree wide beam or 1 Lux downrange at 1/3 mile, 1/2 Lux at 1/2 mile. https://www.xevision.com/led_aircraft.html

 

[alexz]

Can it be installed in the bravo wing ?

[PilotX]

1 hour ago, alexz said:

Can it be installed in the bravo wing ?

That is what I was wondering about with that long connector. I don't understand the connector if it is just two wires. I removed my bulb (gonna track down Whelen or AeroLED at OK today) to get to fuel senders and there just isn't that much space inside there.

[cliffy]

Just a question about the ":strobe" function-

If faced toward the direction of flight was its influence on "flicker vertigo" in humans assessed when reflected back into the cockpit

from clouds or haze?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flicker_vertigo

The light assembly looks very nice and IS bright 

Can you verify the approval status for installation on Part 91 airplanes and if you the requisite  PMA approvals to manufacture for certified airplanes? I don't see it on your website (I could have missed it)

Edited July 26, 2021 by cliffy
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