RLCarter Posted March 24, 2019 Report Posted March 24, 2019 In the process of redoing a few of the placards in my M20-E and researching to verify the correct wording but I cant seem to find one that is on the panel now. The one in question is printed on a clear label that a previous owner installed / or had installed, the first line reads “AVOID CONTINUOUS OPERATION BETWEEN 2000 AND 2350 RPM” which I have found and verified, the second line reads “ABOVE 2600 RPM IN FULL THROTTLE LEVEL FLIGHT”. I have looked everywhere I can think of and can’t seem to find anything referencing the second line of text “ABOVE 2600 RPM IN FULL THROTTLE LEVEL FLIGHT”. I have looked in the POH and the Type Certificate Data Sheets for Mooney M20E, Lycoming IO-360-A1A, Hartzell HC-C2YK-1B (Blades are 7666A-2), Airworthy Directives and Service Bulletins. I called a buddy that has a M20C and his does not have “ABOVE 2600 RPM IN FULL THROTTLE LEVEL FLIGHT”. I have also search here on MS with no luck, has anyone ever seen this and if so can you point me in the direction of the document that has it. Info: 1965 M20E Lycoming IO-360-A1A HC-C2YK-1B Quote
RLCarter Posted March 24, 2019 Author Report Posted March 24, 2019 12 minutes ago, takair said: I’ve never seen that...I have 64E. not sure where they got the info from for the placard....i'm stumped too Quote
PT20J Posted March 25, 2019 Report Posted March 25, 2019 Required placards are listed in TCDS. 1 Quote
RLCarter Posted March 25, 2019 Author Report Posted March 25, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, PT20J said: Required placards are listed in TCDS. Yes I know, but the plane currently has a placard that I can not find listed. I want to make sure it was placed there in error and not something I have overlooked Edited March 25, 2019 by RLCarter Quote
Guest Posted March 25, 2019 Report Posted March 25, 2019 Even the IPC doesn’t show that placard. My guess is it’s home made. Clarence Quote
RLCarter Posted March 25, 2019 Author Report Posted March 25, 2019 1 hour ago, M20Doc said: Even the IPC doesn’t show that placard. My guess is it’s home made. Clarence It’s definitely homemade, just trying to confirm it isn’t necessary Quote
takair Posted March 25, 2019 Report Posted March 25, 2019 4 hours ago, RLCarter said: not sure where they got the info from for the placard....i'm stumped too I did some digging, but can’t even come up with a remote explanation. 2600 just doesn’t seem to tie into any particular requirement. The thinner green arc is 2500-2700. All of the charts allow for a variety of combos. Quote
carusoam Posted March 25, 2019 Report Posted March 25, 2019 I don’t recall that from my 65C days... But Maybe... I Was following the OWTs of the day... climbing out at 25/25... I never got anywhere near that stated limitation... Follow up with your prop manufacturer... See if they have any limitations for the prop and engine combo... I just checked the C POH... all the rpm limitations are described as painted on the tach... thin green arc from 25-2700 rpm is in the rated category, recommended is the 23-2500 rpm range... so it may be an interpretation of the recommended range? Nothing found in The limitations section related to WOT or 2600rpm.. The phrase sounds oddly familiar, but not sure where it comes from... PP thoughts only, not an engine expert... Best regards, -a- Quote
mark21m20c Posted March 25, 2019 Report Posted March 25, 2019 Our 67 m20c says Red Radial - Narrow (No continuous operating in range ) 2000-2250 rpm Does the Narrow refer to narrow deck engine???? Quote
carusoam Posted March 25, 2019 Report Posted March 25, 2019 Tach limitations changed over time... A thin red line was added to the plastic lens on the front of the 65C tach instrument... thus defining the error known as parallax... Best regards, -a- Quote
RLCarter Posted March 25, 2019 Author Report Posted March 25, 2019 The 2000~2350 is for my engine & prop combo, the tach is marked as well. Maybe the A&P was a brand X driver and didn’t like getting pasted by the Mooney so restricted the RPM to 2600?....lol Quote
RLCarter Posted March 27, 2019 Author Report Posted March 27, 2019 2 hours ago, pmccand said: Actually, you can find an RPM limitation as an Airworthiness Limitations listed in the Hartzell Owners Manual ( page 19) on certain props used on A1A O360’s. In short, RPM is limited to 2700 RPM for takeoff only, after which must be reduced to 2600 RPM for continuous operation. That is for the O-360 and the HC-C2YR-1BF/F7666A-2, I have an IO-360 and Hartzell HC-C2YK-1B/7666A-2 Quote
PT20J Posted March 28, 2019 Report Posted March 28, 2019 Let's see... It's not on the TCDS. It's not in the IPC. It's not in the POH. No one here has ever seen such a placard before. The placard is homemade. What was the question? 1 Quote
carusoam Posted March 29, 2019 Report Posted March 29, 2019 Want to see if MS’s prop guy is familiar with that 2600rpm, full throttle, level cruise limitation? @Cody Stallings (Asking Cody now) Best regards, -a- 1 Quote
Prior owner Posted March 29, 2019 Report Posted March 29, 2019 Possibilities from left field : 1) Prior owner had his teeth coming loose at 2600 because it needed a prop balance but he made a placard instead. 2) Prior owner discovered that tach was reading 100 rpm low so he made a bad placard. 3) Prior owner needed to remind himself to conserve on fuel. 4) Plane was in a partnership or flying club and someone didn’t want it flown at 2600 pm for some reason.... Quote
ArtVandelay Posted March 30, 2019 Report Posted March 30, 2019 I found similar wording another TCDS (Pitts 2B): “Avoid continuous operation between 2000 and 2350 RPM, avoid continuous operation (red arc) above 2600 RPM in aerobatic flight and full throttle level flight.” Tom Quote
Cody Stallings Posted March 30, 2019 Report Posted March 30, 2019 22 hours ago, carusoam said: Want to see if MS’s prop guy is familiar with that 2600rpm, full throttle, level cruise limitation? @Cody Stallings (Asking Cody now) Best regards, -a- I haven’t seen any documentation on this. My 67F Model has no placarded limitations on the upper end of the Tach. I know both Engine an Prop are rated at 2700 rpms Continues. 1 Quote
RLCarter Posted March 30, 2019 Author Report Posted March 30, 2019 All the replies pretty much confirms my suspicion. Old placard has been replaced with one that now reads correct. The previous owner sometimes shows up at the QB meeting which is this coming Tuesday, I'll see if he remembers anything about it 1 Quote
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