Adding a JPI 900 on the cheap

[skydvrboy]

OK, I don't currently have an engine monitor and I'd like to add one.  I know there are a lot cheaper alternatives, but I feel that I'd be wasting my money if I went with anything other than a primary replacement unit once a few legacy gauges start failing.  One of my big pet peeves is spending money on the same thing twice.  A little background, I'm currently only VFR rated but plan to get my IR during 2019.

That said, here is my current panel with some drawing I will explain.

Green = move, blue = new, red = remove, orange = ???

To the left of the picture is a standard 6-pack configuration.  I'm pretty sure I want to move the CDI down and install the JPI 900 in its place mounted portrait style.  Removing all the primary instruments above would allow enough room for it to fit there and I'd have it on the left side of the panel eliminating the need for the remote warning light install. 

My OCD makes me want to move the ELT switch out of the way and align the audio panel with the radios.  However, I don't know how much work or expense that would entail as I'm completely unfamiliar with how the trays are supported.  Along those same lines, I'd like to have the transponder aligned as well, but I'm still contemplating whether to keep it and get a SkyBeacon or swap it out for a Stratus ESG for the 1090 ES as I'd like to be able to fly internationally.  I'm kind of leaning toward wait and align them all when I do the ADS-B.  Thoughts?

I know I need to keep the vacuum gauge, but do I leave it there or move it somewhere else?  Similarly, do I keep  the RPM, MAP, FP gauges as backup or remove them?  The Apollo GPS has a dead back light on the display.  I just don't see any point in getting it fixed.  Is there anything it can provide that I don't already get from my iPad and portable GPS receiver?

My panel is currently a single piece of aluminum all the way across.  Does it make sense to split it in half and have a left and right panel?   Once I put the engine monitor in the left side, I would consider it done as I don't see myself making any other changes over there.  I could cut a new piece for the left side, but I think other changes might be coming for the right side, so I'd probably just cover any holes with plates.  Is there support behind the panel to attach to if I split the panel or does this need to be added in?  I know it can be done as I've seen others with two piece panels.  Any affect on resale value either way?

Finally, how much of this can realistically be done by the owner under the supervision of an A&P/IA to save cost?  I'm an engineer and pretty mechanically inclined.  I also have a good friend who was an A&P (15 years ago) and another who was an avionics tech (20 years ago).  I doubt either would help me with the whole project, but they'd certainly come out for an afternoon to help out me out of a bind or answer my near endless questions.

I know that's a lot of questions, but nothing that the group here can't handle.   THANKS!!!

[Jim Peace]

I removed all my analog for the JPI 900...you may even be able to have the JPI display suction....

Also put the JPI in front of your face....the display is small and you will want it just to the right of your new Garmin G5's you will be getting....don't forget to flush mount.

and don't forget to use CIES fuel sensors for the JPI

 

[1964-M20E]

It always takes linger than you think.

 

I'd put the JPI over your transponder save the space for CDIs or other things necessary for flying.  Not that an engine monitor isn't necessary my feelings are it can be off to the right.

[Steve W]

I can't answer the panel questions but that's basically where I'm putting mine, one thing to note is the factory can flip the display if it works out for a better viewing angle for the install position, check the manual for details. 

The majority of the install is running the damn wires and that's pretty easy, if tedious. I've done all the cockpit stuff myself except the manifold pressure line tee. The engine is coming back from repair with all the new sensors on it, so once it arrives it's just putting all the connectors on at the right lengths, routing the harnesses in the cowling and plugging them in. I already had an engine monitor so no new holes in the exhaust were needed, also because of that I'm keeping the factory EGT rather than having that hole in the exhaust patched. I'm going to have my mechanic do the fuel calibration since he has better facilities to drain and re-fill the fuel than I do, I'm keeping the original resistive fuel senders since mine is a 1994 so they're not that bad yet.

Edited December 14, 2018 by Steve W

[Oldguy]

Okay, I have a couple of questions for you. Is this your "forever plane" or the first plane to be replaced by another somewhere in the near (<5 years) future? What will you use your IR for - getting up or down through a layer to fly somewhere or flying through the clag for a couple of hours and shooting an approach to minimums?

Like you, I hate paying for things twice, but I will do it when the cost to do it all at once is too far out of line with my budget. If this is your forever plane, when you have them open up the panel to do the work you indicated above, set things up like you want them to be - new panel, aligning radio stack, etc. - and put in any wiring you will need for the next upgrade you think will happen - WAAS GPS, new A/P, or the like. If you think about doing things in phases, think about what you want done in each one. For instance, if you move the audio panel and have to rewire it, would you upgrade it to one with a built-in intercom and possibly blue tooth? I hate to use the old cliche, but start with the end in mind.

If you and 441WS are just "dating", only upgrade those items you want to add and are willing to throw away money to get.

As for the level of IR usage, determine what equipment you want to match up with your appetite for instrument flying. Too many options to discuss here, and they can get pricey in a heartbeat, so give it some thought.

Also, don't be afraid to look in the used market for some of the items you want. It can save significant $$$$ you can use for something else, like flying the plane and paying for fuel. You can check with @Alan Fox and @acpartswhse for some of the items.

And get a CO monitor. Sensorcon and Guardian both have discounts for us posted somewhere on the forum by @Danb I believe.

[jaylw314]

If you needed to save panel space, you could replace the suction gauge with a 1" gauge pretty cheap.  That would be easy to install in any dead space since you can just drill a hole for it.

If you do get install the EDM 900, I'd jettison the RPM, MAP and FF/FP gauges.  They're not crucial to flight--you can probably fly IFR and land based on your knowledge of the knob positions, the sound of the engine and the plane's performance, and it's not like if you lose the 900, you will suddenly run out of fuel.  Some might disagree on that, but I think most would agree you should only have backups of the things worth backing up.

2 minutes ago, 1964-M20E said:

I'd put the JPI over your transponder save the space for CDIs or other things necessary for flying.  Not that an engine monitor isn't necessary my feelings are it can be off to the right.

IIRC, the 900 is required to be installed within a certain lateral limit, basically in the center stack or to the left.  I don't think it can be installed in the right panel

[Jim Peace]

3 minutes ago, 1964-M20E said:

It always takes linger than you think.

 

I'd put the JPI over your transponder save the space for CDIs or other things necessary for flying.  Not that an engine monitor isn't necessary my feelings are it can be off to the right.

It is a very small display and chances are once he gets into this he will get Garmin G5's and all necessary stuff will be in front of him and ever since I got the JPI I focus on that a lot...if it were on the other side of the cockpit it would be harder to see and it is so nice to have the right side clear for the iPad which does a better job than any panel mount display

[gsxrpilot]

I'm 100% with Jim @Jim Peace on this. Doing the 900 and being done with the old failing gauges is the right thing to do. I've had my 900 mounted right under my G5 and next to my Aspen for the last 400 hours of flight time. I find myself spending way more time watching the engine monitor than I do any of my flying instruments. It's like 20% Aspen and 80% JPI. 

In my M20C, the engine monitor was on the right side. It wasn't all that bad as I didn't know any better. In the M20K it's on the left side and I wonder why I didn't do this earlier.

[jaylw314]

1 hour ago, gsxrpilot said:

I'm 100% with Jim @Jim Peace on this. Doing the 900 and being done with the old failing gauges is the right thing to do. I've had my 900 mounted right under my G5 and next to my Aspen for the last 400 hours of flight time. I find myself spending way more time watching the engine monitor than I do any of my flying instruments. It's like 20% Aspen and 80% JPI. 

In my M20C, the engine monitor was on the right side. It wasn't all that bad as I didn't know any better. In the M20K it's on the left side and I wonder why I didn't do this earlier.

Hey, just out of curiousity, what is the dial gauge in the upper left, right under the voltage warning light?

[GDGR]

I've got a 900 I"m putting in at my next annual. I"ll be moving gauges around, and having it to the immediate left of the radio stack. 
Thanks for the reassuarnce that putting it "right in front of my face" is the right thing to do. 
That, and I hate looking over to the right hand side currently, checking RPM and MP. 

[gsxrpilot]

It's a Volt/Load meter. It measures the % output from each of the two Alternators. And that voltage light is actually a push button. When pushed, the third needle on the gauge (on the bottom) shows the bus voltage.

[skydvrboy]

1 hour ago, Oldguy said:

Okay, I have a couple of questions for you. Is this your "forever plane" or the first plane to be replaced by another somewhere in the near (<5 years) future?

Fair question and the answer is I don't really know.  It is my first plane and I bought it thinking I would just fly it until I figured out what kind of plane I really wanted and then trade.   However, the more I fly it and learn about it, it seems an F would make a pretty decent forever plane.  I almost never fly solo, in fact, I fly with all four seats full more often than I fly solo, so I don't think I'd ever want to trade it for a C or E model.  Currently, a 6-seat aircraft would make some sense, as I sometimes want to take my parents with my family of 4.  However, my youngest will head off to college in just under 5 years, so I don't see myself getting a 6 seat.  I like the idea of back country flying, but living in the middle of Kansas any true back country is quite a distance away.  Bottom line, I'm trying to treat it as a temporary plane and only upgrade what I will use right now and might get something out of when/if I sell it.  Hence the EDM and ADS-B and not paint and interior.

As for instrument flying, I don't foresee doing any real hard IMC flying.  I don't fly for work or ever "need" to get where I'm going when I take the plane.  I want the instrument rating to give myself the option to bust up through the clouds and then back down to VFR weather on arrival instead of scud running.  I also think the rating would improve my flying and weather decision making skills considerably, making me a safer pilot whether I ever use the rating or not.

1 hour ago, Oldguy said:

And get a CO monitor.

I got one about this time last year after my wife and I both got headaches on the same flight.  No CO found, but after that, I refused to fly it again until the detector arrived.  I "installed" it on that blank below the CDI with sticky velcro, so I'll need to find a new home for if I go with the proposed layout.

1 hour ago, gsxrpilot said:

In the M20K it's on the left side and I wonder why I didn't do this earlier.

I've pretty much ruled out putting in on the right side unless I run into something that will cost me a couple AMU's more to put it on the left.  I already know my aging eyes are getting worse, I don't need an eye chart on the right side to prove it.  Plus, what else is there to do in cruise other than monitor your engine and listen for your call sign?

[jaylw314]

1 hour ago, gsxrpilot said:

It's a Volt/Load meter. It measures the % output from each of the two Alternators. And that voltage light is actually a push button. When pushed, the third needle on the gauge (on the bottom) shows the bus voltage.

Ooooooooh!

Why doesn't it just show the bus voltage all the time?  It's kind of silly to have to press the button to show that?

[gsxrpilot]

8 minutes ago, jaylw314 said:

Ooooooooh!

Why doesn't it just show the bus voltage all the time?  It's kind of silly to have to press the button to show that?

Good question.

[carusoam]

Some Mooney ammeters become volt meters at the push of a button....

The button probably changes a resistor to allow the same gauge to be calibrated for both jobs... the ammeter is essentially a volt meter spanning a known resistor (called a Shunt)....

The O does this...

Best regards,

-a-

[skydvrboy]

1 minute ago, carusoam said:

The button probably changes a resistor to allow the same gauge to be calibrated for both jobs...

I'm not familiar with this particular gauge, but the engineer in me says pushing the button opens the circuit via a momentary off switch in order to read the potential difference.  When you push the button, do the ammeters drop to zero?  If so, I'm pretty sure this is what's happening. 

It's like trying to read the voltage at a light switch.  When the light is on, you get 0 volts, turn it off and you read 120 volts (+/-).

[carusoam]

SDB,

See if this clears up what I was trying to say...

Ammeter, technically, is a volt meter, reading voltage drop accross the ship’s shunt...

Pushing the button, reads voltage drop from the shunt to ground...

It probably requires a particular resistor with the button to get the volts to read properly on the amperage scale... (analog device)

Of course, I went on to describe the ammeter in my plane, forgetting what Paul has in his...

PP thoughts only not a mechanic...

Best regards,

-a-

[Seymour]

Where it's at:

I find it takes a side glance but am OK with this position.  The warning light is within my normal view.  (will replace image with Master ON at some point....)

 

[Marauder]

OK, I don't currently have an engine monitor and I'd like to add one.  I know there are a lot cheaper alternatives, but I feel that I'd be wasting my money if I went with anything other than a primary replacement unit once a few legacy gauges start failing.  One of my big pet peeves is spending money on the same thing twice.  A little background, I'm currently only VFR rated but plan to get my IR during 2019.

That said, here is my current panel with some drawing I will explain.

Green = move, blue = new, red = remove, orange = ???

To the left of the picture is a standard 6-pack configuration.  I'm pretty sure I want to move the CDI down and install the JPI 900 in its place mounted portrait style.  Removing all the primary instruments above would allow enough room for it to fit there and I'd have it on the left side of the panel eliminating the need for the remote warning light install. 

My OCD makes me want to move the ELT switch out of the way and align the audio panel with the radios.  However, I don't know how much work or expense that would entail as I'm completely unfamiliar with how the trays are supported.  Along those same lines, I'd like to have the transponder aligned as well, but I'm still contemplating whether to keep it and get a SkyBeacon or swap it out for a Stratus ESG for the 1090 ES as I'd like to be able to fly internationally.  I'm kind of leaning toward wait and align them all when I do the ADS-B.  Thoughts?

I know I need to keep the vacuum gauge, but do I leave it there or move it somewhere else?  Similarly, do I keep  the RPM, MAP, FP gauges as backup or remove them?  The Apollo GPS has a dead back light on the display.  I just don't see any point in getting it fixed.  Is there anything it can provide that I don't already get from my iPad and portable GPS receiver?

My panel is currently a single piece of aluminum all the way across.  Does it make sense to split it in half and have a left and right panel?   Once I put the engine monitor in the left side, I would consider it done as I don't see myself making any other changes over there.  I could cut a new piece for the left side, but I think other changes might be coming for the right side, so I'd probably just cover any holes with plates.  Is there support behind the panel to attach to if I split the panel or does this need to be added in?  I know it can be done as I've seen others with two piece panels.  Any affect on resale value either way?

Finally, how much of this can realistically be done by the owner under the supervision of an A&P/IA to save cost?  I'm an engineer and pretty mechanically inclined.  I also have a good friend who was an A&P (15 years ago) and another who was an avionics tech (20 years ago).  I doubt either would help me with the whole project, but they'd certainly come out for an afternoon to help out me out of a bind or answer my near endless questions.

I know that's a lot of questions, but nothing that the group here can't handle.   THANKS!!!

 

I started my panel redesign just like you’re doing. I would take it one step further and find a CAD guy to do a mock up series and then cut new panels to accommodate the moves and changes and not leave your panel looking like a Frankenstein. I learned that lesson.

 

As for the 900, I certainly think you can do this by yourself supervised by an AP who has done them and can help deal with some of the gotchas that you may encounter. The 900 is the way to go. That was another lesson I learned when I installed an 830 first.

 

I would keep the 900 as close to you as possible. As Paul mentioned, it is looked at a lot. I have mine in the center stack.

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[Bob_Belville]

Don, Chris, Paul, and several others here are promoters of putting an EDM 900 in front of the pilot. I’ll be the contrarian and suggest there are good reasons to put the larger 930 off to the right of the fly-the-airplane space. Playing flight engineer is mostly a tertiary activity below aviate and navigate (and communicate for that matter) in the pecking order.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[gsxrpilot]

1 hour ago, Bob_Belville said:

Don, Chris, Paul, and several others here are promoters of putting an EDM 900 in front of the pilot. I’ll be the contrarian and suggest there are good reasons to put the larger 930 off to the right of the fly-the-airplane space. Playing flight engineer is mostly a tertiary activity below aviate and navigate (and communicate for that matter) in the pecking order.

You are of course, correct sir. 

But I find that with my KFC150 handling the aviating, the IFD540 handling the navigating, communication only happening every 20 minutes or so when changing Center controllers, I'm left with plenty of time on my hands to play flight engineer.

It's certainly not wasted time either as close management of the power plant can easily double my range on the current flight and extend the life of my turbo engine to TBO or beyond.

YMMV but on my flights of over an hour in length, I find myself playing flight engineer about 80% of the time and the aviate/navigate/communicate about 20% of the time. 

[Bob_Belville]

11 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

YMMV but on my flights of over an hour in length, I find myself playing flight engineer about 80% of the time and the aviate/navigate/communicate about 20% of the time. 

Agreed, by the same token Nancy could fly the plane through the famous 95% boredom phase of the flight but you and I get the big bucks to deal with the 5% sheer terror. IMNSHO, during the cruise portion of the flight it really doesn’t make much difference where anything is in the panel.

[0TreeLemur]

Here's what the 900 looks like on the right-hand side of the radio stack flying over the Grand Canyon   I put it over there because it doesn't need to be part of the scan.

[Bob_Belville]

930

Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk

[Jim Peace]

7 hours ago, Bob_Belville said:

Playing flight engineer is mostly a tertiary activity below aviate and navigate (and communicate for that matter)

with one engine and a thousand moving parts, I play FE more than anything else......