AeroVonics AV-20, clocks and minor mods

[takair]

8 hours ago, M20S Driver said:

 

I have AV20-S and used it as primary under the hood with a safety pilot in the right seat.  It worked fine but if this was a real IFR situation, I would have landed at the nearest airport

Thanks.  My standby was a full size TSO electric, it Was a great for cross check and a non issue if I lost my vacuum gyro.  Could you expound on your reason for making it a priority to land?  Is it too small to fly precisely or is it simply that you are down to no backup?  Would you make the purchase again or would you go bigger?

[LANCECASPER]

9 hours ago, takair said:

My standby AI tumbled today just as I was dropping into a layer on an approach to stay current.  Not ready to invest in a full panel.  Now considering the AV-20s, the Dynon D3, or maybe wait for the AV30.  While I would love the GI275, not ready to invest.  

The AV-20s is appealing for the price and features.  For those who have been using it, is the AI truly adequate partial panel?  I notice it does not have a lubber line for roll angle, and it’s on the small side.

D3 is enticing for its synthetic vision and price.  This is why I find the GI275 attractive.  However, the D3 does not have some of the air date features that the AV-20S has.  Thoughts on this?  Also, it is still technically a portable, but fits over the hole vacated by my electric standby.

Was. thinking of waiting for the AV30, but not sure I would really see one in July.  If it had synthetic vision I would certainly wait, but I don’t see any indication of that being on the immediate roadmap.

For those who have flown these as IFR backup AI, what are your thoughts?
 

I would replace your standby or your turn coordinator with this:

https://lifesavergyro.com/

 

[takair]

24 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

I would replace your standby or your turn coordinator with this:

https://lifesavergyro.com/

 

Thanks.  I was considering that.  It is similar to the one that failed.....but I was thinking I get more bang for the buck out of the AV-20s if the AV-20 is considered as flyable as the old school gyro.  Most discussions on the AV-20 s end up being about the clock or AOA and very little on the ADI.

[M20S Driver]

1 hour ago, takair said:

 Could you expound on your reason for making it a priority to land?  Is it too small to fly precisely or is it simply that you are down to no backup?  Would you make the purchase again or would you go bigger?

I would absolutely purchase it again.   I was a little bit uncomfortable hand flying it in a nice sunny day under the hood perhaps due to its size.   It could also be that it changed my scan of instruments (I replaced my clock in the left upper corner with AV20-S).  

[takair]

Thanks for responding. I had posted a similar question on Beechtalk and had a disappointing response and video where the ADI would eventually show wings level in a long constant rate turn, then when rolling level showed opposite bank.  Have you tried an extended turn? For example constant rate 360?  Was very disappoint to read, as I was ready to pull the trigger.

[cliffy]

1 hour ago, takair said:

Thanks for responding. I had posted a similar question on Beechtalk and had a disappointing response and video where the ADI would eventually show wings level in a long constant rate turn, then when rolling level showed opposite bank.  Have you tried an extended turn? For example constant rate 360?  Was very disappoint to read, as I was ready to pull the trigger.

That's interesting about the AV20  I wonder if the AV30 will have the same anomaly?

[takair]

15 minutes ago, cliffy said:

That's interesting about the AV20  I wonder if the AV30 will have the same anomaly?

Perhaps that is what has slowed down certification.  

[M20S Driver]

3 hours ago, takair said:

Thanks for responding. I had posted a similar question on Beechtalk and had a disappointing response and video where the ADI would eventually show wings level in a long constant rate turn, then when rolling level showed opposite bank.  Have you tried an extended turn? For example constant rate 360?  Was very disappoint to read, as I was ready to pull the trigger.

I have not seen that problem but I have not done steep turns to test it either. 

I just came back from a short flight and was comparing the two.  They are very close but it maybe that AV20 is a bit slower to respond.  

AV20 calculates the AOA and it combines the downdrafts with pitch and shows the wrong AOA.  Once I understood what was happening, I now consider it my early warning system for heavy down drafts.  I tested it at Tracy (KTCY) which has nasty down drafts on windy days landing on 30 and it picked it up every single time.  I love this thing for the little money that I paid for it and it's hassle free installation  

My only compaint is that the TAS is high by 4-5% and I heard they may have a fix for it.

[LANCECASPER]

On 5/16/2020 at 8:25 AM, takair said:

Thanks.  I was considering that.  It is similar to the one that failed.....but I was thinking I get more bang for the buck out of the AV-20s if the AV-20 is considered as flyable as the old school gyro.  Most discussions on the AV-20 s end up being about the clock or AOA and very little on the ADI.

I might allow something like an AV-20 to break the tie between what two certified attitude indicators are saying, but from what I've read so far I wouldn't trust it as a real backup.

https://www.beechtalk.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=159271

[carusoam]

Most discussions around here for the AV20... very powerful clock.... not so powerful as an AI or AOAi...

Best regards,

-a-

[0TreeLemur]

5 minutes ago, carusoam said:

Most discussions around here for the AV20... very powerful clock.... not so powerful as an AI or AOAi...

Best regards,

-a-

My experience agrees with this mostly, It is a great clock/timer.   The automatic flight timer is awesome if you forget to note what time you took off.

 However, I run the AI all the time when I'm in actual IMC as a verification of the vacuum AI.  So far they always agree.   I guess if they ever don't I"ll know something is wrong with one of them.  A person with only one watch knows exactly what time it is...  A person with two watches knows that one or both of them is wrong.   A person with three watches knows which one is not working.   I guess the Stratus AHRS could be the tie breaker.

The AoA indication is uncalibratable in my experience.   The TAS indicator has a programming bug.  uAvionix is supposedly aware and working on a fix.  Shouldn't be that hard given that they have temperature and static pressure measurements to calculate the air density...   rho=P/(RT)?

[cliffy]

With 3 AIs in the Boeing it was always best two out of three.   :-)

[jrp]

Hi folks, I have an M20K 231 and installed the AV-20 in place of the clock. I’m finding it interesting and useful but still trying to find the ideal pitch to set for the AOA. So far I am on +9 for stall warning and 3° for level flight. Very interested to see what anyone else has used with a similar aircraft.   Thanks. 

[LANCECASPER]

1 hour ago, jrp said:

Hi folks, I have an M20K 231 and installed the AV-20 in place of the clock. I’m finding it interesting and useful but still trying to find the ideal pitch to set for the AOA. So far I am on +9 for stall warning and 3° for level flight. Very interested to see what anyone else has used with a similar aircraft.   Thanks. 

I don’t think anyone has been able to make the AOA work

[carusoam]

The sensorless AOA has not been reported to be working...

At least not around here...

Do post a big reply if you do get it set up properly!

Best regards,

-a-