Tragic Falcon 50 landing in Greenville downtown

[FastTex]

Falcon 50 accident in Greenville (GMU). Last Thursday. Thoughts and prayers to the two pilot families.

https://www.wyff4.com/article/exclusive-video-shows-deadly-jet-crash-at-greenville-downtown-airport/23570549

I know investigation in on, the Falcon looks so fast during landing...

 

[Piloto]

Wonder if it encountered sudden tail winds. Always check your ground speed on short final.

José

[bob865]

Neither pilot was appropriately certified for the airplane.  The PIC only had a type rating for SIC operation and the SIC only had a Private MEL with no type ratings at all.

[Yetti]

YOLO  - You Only Land Once

[orionflt]

  On 10/5/2018 at 12:46 PM, Yetti said:

YOLO  - You Only Land Once

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Not true, I’ve seen guys do 2-3 and still be able to reuse the airplane. 

[Yetti]

My point being that You Only Live Once is akin to the Southern Expression of "Hold my Beer and watch this"   When you see the guys taking the Jet out for a spin and what they were thinking any of those phrases could have been said while they were firing it up.

 

[orionflt]

Oh so true

 

[Shadrach]

  On 10/4/2018 at 6:45 PM, bob865 said:

Neither pilot was appropriately certified for the airplane.  The PIC only had a type rating for SIC operation and the SIC only had a Private MEL with no type ratings at all.

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True, but credentials don't land airplanes, pilots do.  So the question is what happened?  Do you think this was the first time the plane was flown with that crew?  I am betting the non-credentialed cowboy upfront had a lot illegal time logged in that aircraft and was likely reasonably competent (if not illegal and anti-authority) stick.

[Shadrach]

  On 10/5/2018 at 5:38 PM, Yetti said:

My point being that You Only Live Once is akin to the Southern Expression of "Hold my Beer and watch this"   When you see the guys taking the Jet out for a spin and what they were thinking any of those phrases could have been said while they were firing it up.

 

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I'd bet money that this (illegal) crew had flown this aircraft many, many times prior to the accident.  I do not believe this was a "woo hoo I'm gonna be a jet pilot for a day!" scenario.

[Mooneymite]

Under part 91, the second in command doesn't really need much in the way of qualifications/training to legally sit in the right seat.  However, what is required by the insurance company is much more stringent.  I suspect whoever owns (owned?) that plane is going to find out all about what's in the fine print.   

If the plane was operated part 91, I'm not sure if the PIC needs anything more than the type rating and multi engine ratings as far as the FAR's are concerned.

I have no idea if the jet was being operated under part 91, 91K, or 135.

[Yetti]

Lots of corporate flight departments are Part 91

[Guest]

Having never flown a jet I can only guess.  These jets use our short runway of 4000’ with no issues.  

Failure to close the throttles, failure to deploy the thrust reverser?  

Clarence

[Mooneymite]

  On 10/5/2018 at 8:57 PM, M20Doc said:

Having never flown a jet I can only guess.  These jets use our short runway of 4000’ with no issues.  

Failure to close the throttles, failure to deploy the thrust reverser?  

Clarence

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I'm making no comment about this particular accident...  generally, jet over-run accidents include:  long touchdown, speed above ref and possibly wet/contaminated runway surface.

Most jets can stop very well, but the laws of physics prevail.

[bob865]

  On 10/5/2018 at 5:57 PM, Shadrach said:

True, but credentials don't land airplanes, pilots do.  So the question is what happened?  Do you think this was the first time the plane was flown with that crew?  I am betting the non-credentialed cowboy upfront had a lot illegal time logged in that aircraft and was likely reasonably competent (if not illegal and anti-authority) stick.

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Very true.  I agree and feel sure this isn't the first time these pilots flew the plane as they did when the accident happened.  To your point, I fully expect if I were to ramp check every single engine pilot taking off and landing I would find a long list of violations.  I know without doubt it happens many times every day.  With that said, most of the planes I'm talking about ramp checking are all small 1 or 2 passenger planes with values below $100k.  If you went out a bought a plane worth more than $1mio are you going to let just any pilot fly it?  I know if you have the kinda money to buy a multi-million dollar plane, your relationship with money is a lot different than me and most of us on this forum, so that is a tough comparison. This plane is also certificated for 2 pilots.  This isn't a King Air or Pilatus that can have only one pilot so another private pilot can sit up front and build time because it can be safely/legally operated solo.  They are supposed to have 2 pilots.  So how is the private pilot building time?  Anyway, all I'm getting at is the lack of appropriate certifications shows a systematic disregard for safety and history of poor decision making.  Because of this, I feel like this was an accident waiting to happen.  Remember the saying, "there are old pilots and bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots."  This seems like a real life example.

[Mooneymite]

  On 10/6/2018 at 5:45 PM, bob865 said:

To your point, I fully expect if I were to ramp check every single engine pilot taking off and landing I would find a long list of violations.

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Recently, at a little airport near me, a pilot was landing a brand new (to him) airplane.  His first approach didn't look good, so he went around.  Unfortunately, his concentration was broken and he landed gear up, the plane swerved, hit something concrete and made a ball of itself.  Happily, no one was hurt.

Now the interesting part:  he crashed near the house of the son of an FAA inspector who just happened to be there when the accident took place.  The inspector found that the pilot had no current medical, no current flight review, and the plane had not been insured (allegedly $160K purchase price).

So....you just never know when you might be "ramp checked"..... Ouch.

[Hephaestus]

Read something about anti slip brakes being tagged inop the day before on another forum?

 

 

[Mooneymite]

  On 10/6/2018 at 7:12 PM, Hephaestus said:

Read something about anti slip brakes being tagged inop the day before on another forum?

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From Avweb: 

 Airport security video obtained by the NTSB verified earlier eyewitness reports that the aircraft appeared to make a normal touchdown and confirmed that the thrust reverser and the airbrakes were deployed. The report (PDF) notes that there was an "INOP" placard next to the braking anti-skid switch.

https://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/Pilots-Not-Properly-Rated-In-Fatal-Falcon-50-Accident-231632-1.html