Fly to Mexico or Tucson?......Recommendations?

[AaronDC8402]

There was a semi recent thread on the board with a pilot looking for Tucson area airport recommendations. There are a couple reasons my thread is a little different. That guy had plans in north-west Tucson, and that thread had lots of discussion of summer flying in that area.

Sometime between mid-October to mid-November, I have a trip planned to be in Nogales, Mexico. The last time I visited, I flew commercial to TUS, rented a car, and had someone with Mexican car insurance drive me into Mexico to my destination. KOLS (Nogales, US) is quite a bit closer to the border. Anyone have any experience with the airport or area in general? Any reason TUS would be preferred?

MMNG (Nogales, Mexico) is REALLY close to the facility I'll be visiting. Should I consider flying direct there? This would be my first time flying myself internationally, and I do not speak Spanish. Distance wise, and avoiding waiting in line at the border is really appealing. 

I have some more general concerns as well for which I will happily accept advice. I have flown all over the southeastern US. I deal with flying over and around the Smoky Mountains nearly every flying trip. While I'm used to flying over tall-ish terrain, the aiports around Nogales are all higher altitudes than I've ever taken off from or landed at. 

This will be a roughly 10 hour (in the air) flight from East Tennessee. The most I've spent in the cockpit in one day so far is 8 hours, and I've done 5 or 6 hours in one day several times. The 8 hour day didn't leave me feeling like I couldn't have done a minute more. Not that I'm committed to flying the 10 hours in one day. I have some flexibility to my trip out and back. Fall seems like a good time weather-wise to make the trip in the Mooney.

 

To summarize:

1. Am I going to melt in the airplane flying mid Oct to mid Nov in southern Arizona?
2. Should I land as close to Mexico as I can, land at the big, safe airport in Tucson, or try out international flight?
3. What are the odds that I'll be in over my head flying around the terrain of southern Arizona?

 

[KLRDMD]

6 minutes ago, AaronDC8402 said:

There was a semi recent thread on the board with a pilot looking for Tucson area airport recommendations. There are a couple reasons my thread is a little different. That guy had plans in north-west Tucson, and that thread had lots of discussion of summer flying in that area.

Sometime between mid-October to mid-November, I have a trip planned to be in Nogales, Mexico. The last time I visited, I flew commercial to TUS, rented a car, and had someone with Mexican car insurance drive me into Mexico to my destination. KOLS (Nogales, US) is quite a bit closer to the border. Anyone have any experience with the airport or area in general? Any reason TUS would be preferred?

MMNG (Nogales, Mexico) is REALLY close to the facility I'll be visiting. Should I consider flying direct there? This would be my first time flying myself internationally, and I do not speak Spanish. Distance wise, and avoiding waiting in line at the border is really appealing. 

I have some more general concerns as well for which I will happily accept advice. I have flown all over the southeastern US. I deal with flying over and around the Smoky Mountains nearly every flying trip. While I'm used to flying over tall-ish terrain, the aiports around Nogales are all higher altitudes than I've ever taken off from or landed at. 

This will be a roughly 10 hour (in the air) flight from East Tennessee. The most I've spent in the cockpit in one day so far is 8 hours, and I've done 5 or 6 hours in one day several times. The 8 hour day didn't leave me feeling like I couldn't have done a minute more. Not that I'm committed to flying the 10 hours in one day. I have some flexibility to my trip out and back. Fall seems like a good time weather-wise to make the trip in the Mooney.

 

To summarize:

1. Am I going to melt in the airplane flying mid Oct to mid Nov in southern Arizona?
2. Should I land as close to Mexico as I can, land at the big, safe airport in Tucson, or try out international flight?
3. What are the odds that I'll be in over my head flying around the terrain of southern Arizona?

 

Nogales, AZ is a perfectly fine airport. I've never flown into Nogales, MX but have no reason to feel it wouldn't be a good idea. If you have flexibility why not take two days westbound (headwinds) and then plan the trip home in one day ? The flight won't be an issue with respect to heat or terrain.

[AaronDC8402]

Taking 2 days each direction is absolutely an option. We'll probably play that part by ear. If winds are typical, I'm thinking 2 stops going west and 1 stop going east. 

If I fly all the way to Arizona, I'm going to have a little trouble not heading further west just to say I've been coast to coast in a small plane. It depends a lot on other parts (potential weather delays, etc) of the trip though.

[gsxrpilot]

Get your Customs sticker now. It takes some time.

[thinwing]

Nah ..just show your receipt 

[KLRDMD]

16 minutes ago, thinwing said:

Nah ..just show your receipt 

CBP gave me a hard time once for not having the sticker affixed as required.

[Stephen]

That was me going to Tucson last time. I went into Avra Valley where @KLRDMD, I believe, flys out of. It was a great airport and FBO/MX shop. That said, I have landed at the Nogales airport, it is fine (was) ... I started the aviation program as a teacher at Rio Rico High School way back in the day so was there all the time. If you ever want to do more serious flying in Mexico, there used to be a group called the Baja Pilots Assn, who have every detail you may need.  I think it is these guys:

 

https://www.bajabushpilots.com

 

[AaronDC8402]

2 hours ago, Stephen said:

That said, I have landed at the Nogales airport, it is fine (was) ... 

 

Nogales Mexico or US? How recently?

[AaronDC8402]

3 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

Get your Customs sticker now. It takes some time.

Yes. I need to get started on the details of flying internationally. I've never looked into it at all. I have a couple local friends that have, so I'll probably start with them and the link Stephen shared. 

[Stephen]

35 minutes ago, AaronDC8402 said:

Nogales Mexico or US? How recently?

US, crossing the border (car/on-foot) was a non issue when I did it in the '90's. Just need proper docs.US  DL and Passport usually get it done.

[gsxrpilot]

13 minutes ago, AaronDC8402 said:

Yes. I need to get started on the details of flying internationally. I've never looked into it at all. I have a couple local friends that have, so I'll probably start with them and the link Stephen shared. 

https://dtops.cbp.dhs.gov/main/# it's about $28 or a rounding error in this hobby.  So it's good to go ahead and get it ordered. I actually bought decals in 2016, 2017, and then finally used one in 2018. Flying out of the US was easier then flying back in, but neither were difficult. I've only flown to Canada but intend to fly to Mexico sometime this winter.

The only issue with flying back to the US was giving an accurate landing time. They insisted I could only be +/- 10 minutes. As it turned out, I could have showed up anytime. But that is all probably specific to the local office and who's on duty at the time.

[RobertGary1]

17 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

Get your Customs sticker now. It takes some time.

Or don’t bother. I never used the sticker. Just pay each time  fill out the form at the  border with credit card  When the sticker arrives throw it away  

 

step one= join Baja bush pilots  

-Robert

Edited September 29, 2018 by RobertGary1

[kmyfm20s]

17 hours ago, thinwing said:

Nah ..just show your receipt 

You need your sticker number to file your APAS. The reciept doesn’t have the sticker number. You used to be able to buy your sticker on return to the states, no longer. 

[kmyfm20s]

I had taken some time off from flying to Mexico and just recently started doing it again. @kortopates put on a nice taco run field trip and  to put a few of Mooney Spacer’s through the motions. His step by step syllabus is put together really well and still is super helpful, I still refer to it before trips. One thing that will prevent you from leaving to Mexico with in a few hours is not having your CBP sticker. You need the sticker number for your APAS forms. APAS is easiest to do through the Baja Bush pilots web page. You can do it in a multi step fashion for free other places but I like getting updates on their forum on the latest and greatest for my destination.

[gsxrpilot]

3 hours ago, RobertGary1 said:

Or don’t bother. I never used the sticker. Just pay each time  fill out the form at the  border with credit card  When the sticker arrives throw it away  

 

step one= join Baja bush pilots  

-Robert

+1 for Bajabushpilots

But you'll have to have the sticker... there's no longer any such thing as paying when you arrive or crossing the boarder without it and without being pre-cleared through eAPIS.

[kortopates]

I wouldn't bother to fly into Nogales, MX just to conduct a couple hours business and depart. Not unless you plan to do more trips into MX soon. The reason being is that you'll have to buy the entry permit at near $100, spend near a couple hours going through the paper work lines and then when you depart, its another international flight out that requires extra time to process. Save flying the trip to Mexico for when you are headed to a fun destination and have a long weekend or more. Unless you want to use the trip to get your Mexican Multi-entry permit out of the way for another trip(s) down before the end of the year when the multi-entry permit will expire. 

[Stephen]

2 minutes ago, kortopates said:

I wouldn't bother to fly into Nogales, MX just to conduct a couple hours business and depart. Not unless you plan to do more trips into MX soon. The reason being is that you'll have to buy the entry permit at near $100, spend near a couple hours going through the paper work lines and then when you depart, its another international flight out that requires extra time to process. Save flying the trip to Mexico for when you are headed to a fun destination and have a long weekend or more. Unless you want to use the trip to get your Mexican Multi-entry permit out of the way for another trip(s) down before the end of the year when the multi-entry permit will expire. 

..... and to top it all off when you come back in you have to fly into an airport of entry... little backwater (should say back dessert) Nogales (US)  "International" is one. We used to stop there to do customs when I was a kid coming back to the US from Mexico trips in the family PA 32. Then we would fly to Bisbee (Home) and be done. 

[AaronDC8402]

Nogales, US is an international point of entry (and exit, I assume). Is Nogales, MX an international airport? Or would I have to fly to another Mexican airport first as a point of entry? 

Looking at Nogales, MX on Google, I can't imagine waiting in line much for anything. The place looks pretty small.

 

[kortopates]

Nogales, US is an international point of entry (and exit, I assume). Is Nogales, MX an international airport? Or would I have to fly to another Mexican airport first as a point of entry? 
Looking at Nogales, MX on Google, I can't imagine waiting in line much for anything. The place looks pretty small.
 

It is, but does not have a reputation for being friendly enough that it would be recommended for a first timer. A few complaints unfortunately.


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[cliffy]

I have been through the Mexico border issues in Boeings down to Mooneys. Unless you "want" to learn the new ways of doing your border crossing with the new regs just for the fun of it, ( there are folks to help, but its still up to you to make sure you get it correct) for just one quick trip across for a couple of hours, I'd land close and drive across. Its only 7 or 8 miles. You'll spend more time studying and learning than the entire trip across. If you were going further down into Mexico and staying longer then its a different story.

You're already working on  your longest cross country just to get there. You'll be tired when you get there and then you will need to suck it all up and do a border crossing. I wouldn't recommend it. For those that do it all the time its not a problem. For you, you'll be up to your eyeballs because if you get it wrong there are big penalties to pay. There is a lot to learn the first time and with what you have planned already, you'll be behind the power curve. Land at Nogales AZ after your long day flying. Hertz and Enterprise have offices in Nogales AZ. Call early to reserve a car and a hotel. 

You've got enough going on with work and your long cross country. Don't compound the issue with a Mexico border crossing just for 2 hours there. Remember, you still have a long flight home to go.  The AZ terrain won't be any issue but you will need to fly around all the restricted airspace getting there. 

 

[N201MKTurbo]

One thing to consider is most US rental car companies prohibit taking their cars across the border. I inadvertently did it once in TJ. It would probably be better to walk across and take taxis or rent a car in Mexico.

https://www.autoslash.com/blog-and-tips/posts/crossing-the-border-from-the-united-states-to-mexico

 

Edited September 30, 2018 by N201MKTurbo

[Stephen]

https://www.uber.com/cities/nogales/

 

[AaronDC8402]

Thanks everyone for all the info and feedback. I thought flying across the boarder would save waiting in line driving across the border. Sounds like they make you wait at the airport too, so no time/frustration savings there. My current plan is to fly into Nogales, AZ. International flying sounds like more than I want to get into for this trip. Maybe I'll give that a shot next time.

[nels]

My insurance does not cover my plane outside the US.

[gsxrpilot]

12 hours ago, nels said:

My insurance does not cover my plane outside the US.

I specifically asked for coverage for Canada, Caribbean, and Mexico, when I got the policy. It didn't change the cost.