M20E STARTER

[Shadrach]

On 6/1/2018 at 2:17 PM, Whiskey Charlie said:

Yes, I’m do know I need 149 tooth.  I’m just wondering if anyone else has used the NL on the E model.  I actually need all the weight upfront I can get.  I’m aft heavy do to TCAS electronics in the tail.  No matter which starter I choose. I’ll have to add weight to offset the lighter starter.  

I’ve used the 149NL on my F model. Same engine. No issues. PITA to remove and reinstall.

[Shadrach]

On 7/2/2018 at 11:46 AM, N201MKTurbo said:

I've had mine on my J for 10 years or so and It has been reliable. It failed once and I called Skytec and they let me buy a new starter and they shipped it out immediately. I shipped the defective starter back and a few days later they credited me the full price of the starter. I thought that was pretty good customer service. I knew the starter was defective when I sent it back so I didn't really need them to evaluate it. BTW I think it was out of warrantee when this happened and they replaced it anyway. 

Skytec (now Hartzell) has a reputation for supporting their products far beyond warranty

[carusoam]

JOnathan...

Can you do your own WnB calculations?

two pounds that far forwards is probably noticeable...

But, so many people have done this before it may be in the worth it category...

See how far your Cg moves, compare it to the whole Cg window...

If need be... throw another couple of pounds of tools or so in the box in the baggage compartment...

Definitely check with your mechanic on this...  because I am only a PP, not a mechanic...

While you are there do you have a light weight alternator already? That may be a nice balancing act...

Best regards,

-a-

[GDGR]

On 10/26/2018 at 3:46 PM, Shadrach said:

I’ve used the 149NL on my F model. Same engine. No issues. PITA to remove and reinstall.

Went to take a look at mine that’s being replaced (old Prestolite). AME was clearly frustrated, as he now had to lower the fuel servo (installed and replaced 2 months ago) to get the starter out. 

The rear 2 bolts on the starter won’t thread out, as the starter is resting on the servo now. 

That, and he keeps wanting me to switch To a 201 cowl, and save a few hours of nuts and bolts, removing the old cowl every time, as this is the second time in 3 months.... oh, and Annual is due in March!

[mike20papa]

Great starter - the 149NL.  But remember, installation includes sheet metal work to close off reduced size of starter hole or you'll be right back on this site talking about why high CHT's.

[Shadrach]

12 minutes ago, GLJA said:

Went to take a look at mine that’s being replaced (old Prestolite). AME was clearly frustrated, as he now had to lower the fuel servo (installed and replaced 2 months ago) to get the starter out. 

The rear 2 bolts on the starter won’t thread out, as the starter is resting on the servo now. 

That, and he keeps wanting me to switch To a 201 cowl, and save a few hours of nuts and bolts, removing the old cowl every time, as this is the second time in 3 months.... oh, and Annual is due in March!

I can't speak to any differences in the E cowl, but I don't believe the servo need be removed to get the starter out.  The alternator or generator however, definitely needs to come out first.

[GDGR]

21 minutes ago, Shadrach said:

I can't speak to any differences in the E cowl, but I don't believe the servo need be removed to get the starter out.  The alternator or generator however, definitely needs to come out first.

Wish I took a photo last night. Alternator is out of the way. Aft bolts are 1/2” out, and the bottom of the starter is now on the Servo. Thenflare on the body of the Prestolite is preventing the bolt from coming out further. So, the servo needs to be dropped. 

Might not be an issue with the Skytec 149nl going in. Also hoping I won’t have to find out any time soon. 

Edited January 5, 2019 by GLJA

[Shadrach]

2 minutes ago, GLJA said:

Wish I took a photo last night. Alternator is out of the way. Aft bolts are 1/2” out, and the bottom of the starter is now on the Servo. Thenflare on the body of the Prestolite is preventing the bolt from coming out further. So, the servo needs to be dropped. 

Might not be an issue with the Skytec 149nl going in. Also hoping I won’t have to find out any time soon. 

Interesting.  My starter is installed with a combination of studs, nuts and bolts.  There is also a protrusion on the skytec starter housing but on my engine, that corner utilizes a stud with a nut and lock-washer.

[Bob_Belville]

We had to swap out starters from a 149 PM to a 149 NL when we installed the SabreCowl to clear the new FG air intake. It was a tight fit and we did have to grind off an extra flange on the new starter casting but we did not have to disturb the fuel servo.

[GDGR]

21 minutes ago, Bob_Belville said:

We had to swap out starters from a 149 PM to a 149 NL when we installed the SabreCowl to clear the new FG air intake. It was a tight fit and we did have to grind off an extra flange on the new starter casting but we did not have to disturb the fuel servo.

It’s a tight fit. A1A engine. Not sure if that makes a difference. I’m inclined to consider a new cowl that’s easier to take off (ie 201 or a Sabrecowl perhaps???) after seeing this debacle unfold. 

The added speed won’t hurt either. 

[Bob_Belville]

2 minutes ago, GLJA said:

It’s a tight fit. A1A engine. Not sure if that makes a difference. I’m inclined to consider a new cowl that’s easier to take off (ie 201 or a Sabrecowl perhaps???) after seeing this debacle unfold. 

The added speed won’t hurt either. 

I think the SabreCowl Gen2 is going to be a very desirable mod, it will be a complete new FG cowl rather than modifications to our existing metal/FG cowls. And the price is going to be very reasonable!  

[Bob_Belville]

11 minutes ago, GLJA said:

It’s a tight fit. A1A engine. Not sure if that makes a difference. I’m inclined to consider a new cowl that’s easier to take off (ie 201 or a Sabrecowl perhaps???) after seeing this debacle unfold. 

The added speed won’t hurt either. 

My E is also an A1A.

[jetdriven]

On 7/2/2018 at 11:31 AM, adrian said:

The 149-12HT on my '66 E failed last week.  It was fitted in 2014 under warranty after the previous 149-12HT failed.  That failure led to weeks of downtime as I had to ship the starter to Skytec from France, wait for them to determine that it was a failure that was covered under warranty, then wait for a new motor to be shipped and fitted.  I'm out of warranty this time, and very reluctant to fit another flimsy lightweight starter.

Any suggestions for a good, reliable starter?  

The Prestolite is a very reliable and bulletproof starter. 

[meddesign]

One mechanic friend likes them, another says 10 sec crank time is not good, I have read of burned out ones....My bird is a minimum of 9 blades on a hot start (no need to talk about that had it for 13 yrs) ....my Prestolite bendex has been intermittent of late its 10 years since OH.....Those of you that like it is your hot start better than mine and those of you that have had problems is it from long cranking?  1970 E

Edited October 26, 2019 by meddesign

[takair]

11 hours ago, meddesign said:

One mechanic friend likes them, another says 10 sec crank time is not good, I have read of burned out ones....My bird is a minimum of 9 blades on a hot start (no need to talk about that had it for 13 yrs) ....my Prestolite bendex has been intermittent of late its 10 years since OH.....Those of you that like it is your hot start better than mine and those of you that have had problems is it from long cranking?  1970 E

With the 149-12HT my starts improved significantly.  Hot starts are still a few more blades than cold, but I don’t think it’s 10.  Its actually hard to count with this starter.  I’ll say that these days, with a this starter, Concord battery, trickle charger, and SureFly ignition (cleaned SOS was great too); my cold and hot start technique has evolved to be near identical.  Relatively long prime full rich (10s), 1/2 “ throttle and crank.  Hot starts occasionally require a little extra throttle, probably indicating I’ve overprimed a little.  But it has been a long time since I’ve drained a battery on a hot start....knock on wood.

[meddesign]

waiting for you to invent the automatic starter mixture control. 

[takair]

52 minutes ago, meddesign said:

waiting for you to invent the automatic starter mixture control. 

Ha, it’s in work (slow motion work). The latest version of Auto-Lean has some new features, one of which would allow it to remain connected for start and shutdown.  Have been looking at automating it for starts, but have not worked it all out yet.  Certification will be another matter.

[meddesign]

thought of cleaning all the various connections from battery to starter, then using conductive copper grease.....I can not remember when I did that last and seems to me I got a new battery last year only to find out the old one was still serviceable.....I did not think of it last year......so a friend suggested I use the battery/electric troubleshooting guide before I do anything to see if there is  something wrong and  if there was improvement.   While cranking measured 8.9 V and after three blades it was 10 V... tomorrow I will clean terminals to see if it is better and call Sky-Tech to see about discrepancies as to listed starters, also call a local starter guy and ask about replacing the starter drive on the boat anchor.   Everybody seems to like the Sky-tec.....but I do see posts like "another failed Sky-tec.....and reference to "anti-kickback protection"....not sure if it is an issue with the Prestolite.....Also the baffle mods,possible tab removal,  possible wire extension....did you have to extend the wire when you installed your 149--12HT. or remove tabs.  Spruce says 149-NL but fitment reference on Sky-tec site does not list that starter for the E....

[takair]

Did not have to change length of cable, it just made it.  The baffle did require some rework to make it fit.  

[chriscalandro]

I went from the prestolite (18lbs) to the nl (9.5)lbs this week. 
 

there should only be the 4 bolts on the bottom and the one through the alternator or generator mount. 
 

I am a bit lost on your fuel servo thing, shouldn’t be anywhere close. 
 

my cable has no stretch left in it but it made it and the extra tabs were not an issue, but grinding them off shouldn’t be a big deal. 

Edited October 28, 2019 by chriscalandro

[meddesign]

24 minutes ago, chriscalandro said:

I am a bit lost on your fuel servo thing, shouldn’t be anywhere close. 

 

looking at mine today .....the mechanic probably was trying to remove it without dropping the lower cowl.....

[chriscalandro]

38 minutes ago, meddesign said:

looking at mine today .....the mechanic probably was trying to remove it without dropping the lower cowl.....

I tried that. I think I asked that question here last week. 

Yeah, you can, but it's not worth it. 

[meddesign]

well dodged a bullet I think....was going through the Sky-tec starter trouble shoot sheet and found a loose nut on the starter solenoid...it had a split washer that the sharp ends had worn away because of vibration, and the nut was loose and somewhat burned....changed to a star washer and tightened all the nuts from the battery forward including grounds.....I guess I will find out if that was the only problem.

[carusoam]

Great follow-up, Don!

Best regards,

-a-