DualRatedFlyer Posted February 16, 2018 Report Posted February 16, 2018 Saw Avidyne’s promotional deal where turning in your 430w gets you 5k off a new IFD440. The plug and play installation into the 430 deck keeps installation expenses virtually nonexistent. Called Avidyne to get the skinny on compatibility with existing systems (Stec50, GTX345, etc) and was assured all was compatiable. Called a respectable avionics shop to get pricing and was told the GTX345 is not STC’d to work with the IFD440 (or 540), and that I would need to replace the 345 with an AXP340 and add a Skytrax 100 for ADSB in. Has anyone had experience with this? Appear to be getting conflicting information. Quote
LANCECASPER Posted February 16, 2018 Report Posted February 16, 2018 On 2/16/2018 at 11:21 PM, DualRatedFlyer said: Saw Avidyne’s promotional deal where turning in your 430w gets you 5k off a new IFD440. The plug and play installation into the 430 deck keeps installation expenses virtually nonexistent. Called Avidyne to get the skinny on compatibility with existing systems (Stec50, GTX345, etc) and was assured all was compatiable. Called a respectable avionics shop to get pricing and was told the GTX345 is not STC’d to work with the IFD440 (or 540), and that I would need to replace the 345 with an AXP340 and add a Skytrax 100 for ADSB in. Has anyone had experience with this? Appear to be getting conflicting information. Expand Absolutely not true! Since last March when Avidyne released 10.2 the GTX335 or 345 can be used with the IFD440/540/550 http://www.avidyne.com/news/press.asp?release=342 Quote
jetdriven Posted February 16, 2018 Report Posted February 16, 2018 That GTX345r is like a 6500$ box. Can you tell me if it displays traffic and weather on the ifd540? That press release says protocol support but it doesn’t say full functionality. Quote
LANCECASPER Posted February 17, 2018 Report Posted February 17, 2018 On 2/16/2018 at 11:58 PM, jetdriven said: That GTX345r is like a 6500$ box. Can you tell me if it displays traffic and weather on the ifd540? That press release says protocol support but it doesn’t say full functionality. Expand Yes it does. Quote
Cruiser Posted February 17, 2018 Report Posted February 17, 2018 I have the panel mount GTX345 not the "r" connected via ARINC 429 for traffic and it works fine. I don't have the weather connected Quote
DualRatedFlyer Posted February 17, 2018 Author Report Posted February 17, 2018 On 2/16/2018 at 11:47 PM, LANCECASPER said: Absolutely not true! Since last March when Avidyne released 10.2 the GTX335 or 345 can be used with the IFD440/540/550 http://www.avidyne.com/news/press.asp?release=342 Expand I’m missing where in the article it says that (it’s probably going to jump out and bite me).. can you help clarify? Quote
DualRatedFlyer Posted February 17, 2018 Author Report Posted February 17, 2018 On 2/17/2018 at 12:11 AM, LANCECASPER said: Yes it does. Expand Also can’t find this letter on their page (I’m 0 for 2) http://www.avidyne.com/support/downloads.asp?prod=ifdpart23 Quote
LANCECASPER Posted February 17, 2018 Report Posted February 17, 2018 On 2/17/2018 at 12:20 AM, DualRatedFlyer said: I’m missing where in the article it says that (it’s probably going to jump out and bite me).. can you help clarify? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 Quote
DualRatedFlyer Posted February 17, 2018 Author Report Posted February 17, 2018 On 2/17/2018 at 12:22 AM, LANCECASPER said: Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Expand Thank you very much. So the avionics shop specifically stated that lack of STC. The above states compatibility, but wouldn’t you need the STC to be official for install? Quote
Cruiser Posted February 17, 2018 Report Posted February 17, 2018 I would not be doing any business with that avionics shop! They are not up to speed or mis-informed. What else they don't know is questionable. 1 Quote
LANCECASPER Posted February 17, 2018 Report Posted February 17, 2018 On 2/17/2018 at 12:22 AM, DualRatedFlyer said: Also can’t find this letter on their page (I’m 0 for 2) http://www.avidyne.com/support/downloads.asp?prod=ifdpart23 Expand That letter is not on the public page, it's for installers. But now you have it in a .pdf in an above post. 1 Quote
LANCECASPER Posted February 17, 2018 Report Posted February 17, 2018 On 2/17/2018 at 12:25 AM, DualRatedFlyer said: Thank you very much. So the avionics shop specifically stated that lack of STC. The above states compatibility, but wouldn’t you need the STC to be official for install? Expand Garmin will never have it as part of their STC. Avidyne, in getting 10.2 approved last March, made it part of theirs' which is all you need. If your installer doesn't know it's compatible and doesn't know that it doesn't need to be part of Garmin's STC, you have the wring installer. He is 11 months behind for sure. Quote
DualRatedFlyer Posted February 17, 2018 Author Report Posted February 17, 2018 On 2/17/2018 at 12:27 AM, LANCECASPER said: Garmin will never have it as part of their STC. Avidyne, in getting 10.2 approved last March, made it part of theirs' which is all you need. Expand Can you provide the rest of the letter? Is there an official Avidyne STC number that states this, or does the service letter serve in lieu of? Thanks for answering these, just want to make sure I understand before calling the shop back. Quote
Cruiser Posted February 17, 2018 Report Posted February 17, 2018 There is no such thing as an STC to connect equipment. The STC approves the equipment to be installed in the airplane. Everything else is compatibility. The latest software version 10.2 for Avidyne (which is STC approved to install in your plane) includes the ability to interface with the Garmin GTX 345. 2 1 Quote
LANCECASPER Posted February 17, 2018 Report Posted February 17, 2018 On 2/17/2018 at 12:36 AM, Cruiser said: There is no such thing as an STC to connect equipment. The STC approves the equipment to be installed in the airplane. Everything else is compatibility. The latest software version 10.2 for Avidyne (which is STC approved to install in your plane) includes the ability to interface with the Garmin GTX 345. Expand Thank you Quote
DualRatedFlyer Posted February 17, 2018 Author Report Posted February 17, 2018 On 2/17/2018 at 12:36 AM, Cruiser said: There is no such thing as an STC to connect equipment. The STC approves the equipment to be installed in the airplane. Everything else is compatibility. The latest software version 10.2 for Avidyne (which is STC approved to install in your plane) includes the ability to interface with the Garmin GTX 345. Expand Starting to make more sense. Since the GTX345 installation requires an approved source of GPS data (coming from the 430), wouldn’t using a non gtx345 approved source of GPS data -IFD440- be an issue? Quote
LANCECASPER Posted February 17, 2018 Report Posted February 17, 2018 On 2/17/2018 at 12:35 AM, DualRatedFlyer said: Can you provide the rest of the letter? Is there an official Avidyne STC number that states this, or does the service letter serve in lieu of? Thanks for answering these, just want to make sure I understand before calling the shop back. Expand 606-00182-015.pdfFetching info... Quote
LANCECASPER Posted February 17, 2018 Report Posted February 17, 2018 On 2/17/2018 at 12:47 AM, DualRatedFlyer said: Starting to make more sense. Since the GTX345 installation requires an approved source of GPS data (coming from the 430), wouldn’t using a non gtx345 approved source of GPS data -IFD440- be an issue? Expand No Would that mean that a 530 wouldn't be compatible? How about a GTN 650? What about a GTN750? Don't overthink this. You already called Avidyne - they said it was compatible. The Service Letter that I provided you said it's compatible You can trust these sources. The GTX345 and the IFD540 are compatible. Quote
gsxrpilot Posted February 17, 2018 Report Posted February 17, 2018 On 2/17/2018 at 12:47 AM, DualRatedFlyer said: Starting to make more sense. Since the GTX345 installation requires an approved source of GPS data (coming from the 430), wouldn’t using a non gtx345 approved source of GPS data -IFD440- be an issue? Expand The GTX345 requires an "approved" WAAS source. "Approved" by who? A Stratus2 receiver stuck in the window would not be "Approved" for anything according to the FAA. But the Avidyne GPS units are certainly "Approved" WAAS sources. Quote
Cruiser Posted February 17, 2018 Report Posted February 17, 2018 The following is from the Avidyne AFMS manual. I think this is the link you are looking for. The Garmin GTX 345 requires an approved GPS/SBAS source. This statement allows connection to "other avionic systems" which would include the GTX 345 among others. Quote
PTK Posted February 17, 2018 Report Posted February 17, 2018 On 2/16/2018 at 11:21 PM, DualRatedFlyer said: Saw Avidyne’s promotional deal where turning in your 430w gets you 5k off a new IFD440. The plug and play installation into the 430 deck keeps installation expenses virtually nonexistent. Called Avidyne to get the skinny on compatibility with existing systems (Stec50, GTX345, etc) and was assured all was compatiable. Called a respectable avionics shop to get pricing and was told the GTX345 is not STC’d to work with the IFD440 (or 540), and that I would need to replace the 345 with an AXP340 and add a Skytrax 100 for ADSB in. Has anyone had experience with this? Appear to be getting conflicting information. Expand If you do a search on here you’ll find that there have been others who have trusted what one vendor or the other says and were burned with incompatibilities and their plane grounded. Save yourself those headaches by sticking to one vendor and don’t try to intermix. It’s tempting trying to save a few bucks but it’s risky. Garmin owns the sandbox Avidyne and others want (need) to play in. Their priority is not to be compatible with Avidyne. But Avidyne needs to be accepted into that sandbox. The cost of admission is be compatible with Garmin on their own if they are going to sell anything. So invariably what ends up happening is the other vendor, Avidyne in this case, plays catch-up tying to reverse engineer their product to function with the Garmin. I personally wouldn’t get in the middle of that. When you have a compatibility issue later you’ll be the one stuck with the problem. Avidyne will blame Garmin and/or the installer or vice versa but they will assure you up and down they are working hard to fix it! Personally I’d stick with one vendor. I’d get a GTN since you already have the GTX345. Or you may possibly save money if you went with the APX340 and 440 selling the GTX345. You have to run the numbers and make that determination. You get what you pay for and there’s no free lunch. That’s my opinion. 1 Quote
Cruiser Posted February 17, 2018 Report Posted February 17, 2018 On 2/16/2018 at 11:21 PM, DualRatedFlyer said: Saw Avidyne’s promotional deal where turning in your 430w gets you 5k off a new IFD440. The plug and play installation into the 430 deck keeps installation expenses virtually nonexistent. .............snip Expand As for the plug and play installation............. Yes, but maybe NO. The GTX 345 outputs weather on the RS 422 line to one of the RS 232 inputs of the GPS. Unless this line was installed when the GTX 345 was put in it will have to be added now in order to get the ADS-B weather. If you can currently get weather on your GNS 430W, you will get it on the IFD440 Quote
DualRatedFlyer Posted February 17, 2018 Author Report Posted February 17, 2018 Good info @Cruiser. I do currently get Wx on the 430. Any other quirks I should be aware of? Quote
DualRatedFlyer Posted February 19, 2018 Author Report Posted February 19, 2018 Posting this here from the Avidyne community forum. The author is the VP of product development. The middle two paragraphs would appear to bring into question the legality of the 345/440 combination until an official STC is released. I see that 10.2 has been released, but I have not seen an STC that specifically calls out this combination. http://forums.avidyne.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=1127&title=adsb-compatability The IFD family of boxes will output ADS-B compliant GPS position for various ADS-B Out transponders to use. Those transponders can use that GPS output just fine and be donating their position into the ADS-B network and look and feel like full-up ADS-B participants including being able to receive ADS-B data from other network participants (presuming a piece of equipment capable of receiving that ADS-B data is on the airplane).The "to be legal" part is where I would say he isn't completely correct. The FAA mandate (the "legal" thing here) requires an FAA recognition of compatible compliance by Dec 31, 2019. That typically is delivered via an STC vehicle (but it doesn't have to be). So, between now and Dec 31, 2019, you can basically do whatever you want and not be "illegal".That nuanced set of statements is important operationally. You are a full-up ADS-B participant with an IFD and an ADS-B Out transponder combo, now. You just need to make sure, presuming the FAA doesn't change their rules between now and then, that by Dec 31 2019, you have a combination of GPS position source (e.g. IFD540, IFD440, etc) and ADS-B Out transponder that is a FAA-recognized acceptable pair. As of Release 10.2, that will include:IFD4XX/5XX - AXP322IFD4XX/5XX - AXP340IFD4XX/5XX - GTX330ESIFD4XX/5XX - GTX345Avidyne is the one obtaining the STC that supports those combos. I would agree with Mike that other vendors are understandably reluctant to seek more STCs that include Avidyne navigators and/or transponders. They do this for reasons that make business sense to them.There are other combos that involve Avidyne supplied navigators like R9 and other combos that involve Garmin supplied navigators and Avidyne supplied transponders but I will leave those out of this IFD-centric post.An important note is that some installers inappropriately take a position that until there is a STC that shows the navigator-transponder combo is FAA recognized as 2020 mandate ADS-B Out compliant, then it is not a legal installation. They are wrong, plain and simple. But, sometimes, you are just pushing on a rope in spite of actual facts and so the mis-perceptions propagate.A lot of that will be moot as soon as the STCs are in place in the very near future. Quote
Cruiser Posted February 19, 2018 Report Posted February 19, 2018 A couple of comments 1. the data above from the Avidyne forum was posted on 16 August 2016. 2. the equipment pairing (as required) is called out in the Avidyne install manual rev 12 dated (3/15/17) paragraph 6.12 page 85 Garmin GTX335 GTX345 "The IFD4XX/IFD5XX AML STC approves ADS-B out capability for this ADS-B OUT transmitter and GNSS position sensor combination to comply with 91.227." 3. the install manual is part of the Approved Model List STC. Appendix B: STC Permission Avidyne Corporation hereby grants to all National Aviation Authorities (FAA, CAA, JAA, etc) approved installers the use of data from STC SA00343BO to install the Avidyne IFD5XX/4XX System. This also includes any international validations of the STC (e.g. EASA, ANAC, etc). Copies of the STC data are available on the Avidyne website Technical Publications page or upon request. The latest data revisions are listed in Avidyne 700-00182-XXX/700-00179-XXX Master Document List, AVIFD-306. Installers must abide by the conditions and limitations stated in both the STC and in the Installation Manual in order to maintain compliance. The use of this data by itself does not constitute installation approval. Therefore: fully approved "legal" installation of this combination of equipment is current FAA recognized. 1 Quote
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