How reasonable are these estimates?

[flyboy0681]

I submitted a small list of items that my partners and I would like taken care of on the panel and one shop returned these estimates. They seem awfully high to me and I'd like to seek opinions:

 

1. Strip the black material from the panel and paint or powder coat. Estimated at 22 hours for a total cost of $2,090

2. Install a used, GTX-327. 16 hours for a total cost of $2,270 including the used unit. We are already ADS-B compliant and just need a good, reliable unit to replace the KT-76A

3. Update the GTN750 with the latest release level. 2 hours at a total cost of $190.

[N6758N]

Why a 327? Might as well go 330ES if you need ADS-B compliance. A transponder swap should take 4-8 hours MAX! All of their labor estimates are really high compared to my experience. The 750 is about right though. 

[flyboy0681]

1 minute ago, N6758N said:

Why a 327? Might as well go 330ES if you need ADS-B compliance. A transponder swap should take 4-8 hours MAX! All of their labor estimates are really high compared to my experience. The 750 is about right though. 

We are already compliant, which is why we want a used unit. I'll edit my original post, thanks for bringing this to my attention.

[N6758N]

2 minutes ago, flyboy0681 said:

We are already compliant, which is why we want a used unit. I'll edit my original post, thanks for bringing this to my attention.

Gotcha, I wouldn't pay more than $400 for a used 327, the market is flooded with them right now. Maybe $12-1400 installed including purchasing the unit. Did you get your bird fixed yet after the wing damage?

[flyboy0681]

Just now, N6758N said:

Gotcha, I wouldn't pay more than $400 for a used 327, the market is flooded with them right now. Maybe $12-1400 installed including purchasing the unit. Did you get your bird fixed yet after the wing damage?

The repair is going nicely and we hope to have her back by the end of next month. 

[N601RX]

44 minutes ago, flyboy0681 said:

I submitted a small list of items that my partners and I would like taken care of on the panel and one shop returned these estimates. They seem awfully high to me and I'd like to seek opinions:

 

1. Strip the black material from the panel and paint or powder coat. Estimated at 22 hours for a total cost of $2,090

2. Install a used, GTX-327. 16 hours for a total cost of $2,270 including the used unit. We are already ADS-B compliant and just need a good, reliable unit to replace the KT-76A

3. Update the GTN750 with the latest release level. 2 hours at a total cost of $190.

Ask a local AP to remove the panels for you and then you deliver them to the powdercoater. The local guy can then reinstall them for you. Also consider getting laser marked or screen printed while removed. Should be in the 3-400 range. 

327 install should be around 400 if putting it back in the same space and encoder is reusable. 

[mooniac15u]

Why not a KT-76C as a replacement transponder?

[flyboy0681]

1 minute ago, mooniac15u said:

Why not a KT-76C as a replacement transponder?

Excellent point. I'll see what the shop comes back with.

[flyboy0681]

Just now, bluehighwayflyer said:

They still have a vacuum tube

Great Scot!

[MIm20c]

4 hours ago, N601RX said:

Ask a local AP to remove the panels for you and then you deliver them to the powdercoater. The local guy can then reinstall them for you. Also consider getting laser marked or screen printed while removed. Should be in the 3-400 range. 

I would think to have a mechanic take everything out of the panel, have the unit stripped and powder coated, laser etched and reinstalled would be at least 600-800?

[Marauder]

Having a fair number of panel upgrades and modifications over the past 5 years, those prices are really high.

Hopefully you shopped around for other quotes. On my first upgrade which included the GTN, the quotes varied $8k.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Bryan]

I just had my GTN 750 updated with the latest software (v6.41) for $60. It took 11minutes, I noted the time.

[jonhop]

7 hours ago, flyboy0681 said:

I submitted a small list of items that my partners and I would like taken care of on the panel and one shop returned these estimates. They seem awfully high to me and I'd like to seek opinions:

 

1. Strip the black material from the panel and paint or powder coat. Estimated at 22 hours for a total cost of $2,090

2. Install a used, GTX-327. 16 hours for a total cost of $2,270 including the used unit. We are already ADS-B compliant and just need a good, reliable unit to replace the KT-76A

3. Update the GTN750 with the latest release level. 2 hours at a total cost of $190.

Probably doesn't help but I went from KT-76A to GTX-345 with a FS-510. Install labor was 12 hours at a cost of $1260. The GTN-650 software upgrade to allow the FS-510 install was included in the 12hr estimate...

Edited December 21, 2017 by jonhop

[mooniac15u]

16 hours ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

They still have a vacuum tube, but they look nice and they slide right in. 

I'm not aware of a reliability issue related to the underlying technology.  Do the cavity tubes in the KT-76C have a high failure rate?  It's a slide-in replacement that has similar functionality to the GTX-327.  If the cavity tube does fail you could buy 10 more of them for the price of installing the one GTX-327.

[mike_elliott]

19 hours ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

I replaced my very ancient, but working, KT76A with a freshly yellow tagged and like new solid state Narco AT-165, which is a direct slide in replacement. I know people like to poo poo everything Narco, but the swap cost me $300 after I sold the King on eBay, and now I have a modern solid state transponder with the digital display and some other neat features like a timer, and a read out of the altitude that my mode C is reporting.  For $300 it seemed like a reasonable chance to take on the Narco.

I could be wrong, but when you replace or even remove a transponder, dont you have to have the thing recertified anyway, Jim?

[N6758N]

23 minutes ago, mike_elliott said:

I could be wrong, but when you replace or even remove a transponder, dont you have to have the thing recertified anyway, Jim?

Correct Mike. I remember a few years back at Oshkosh, a gentleman came up to the booth my company had (avionics shop) and told us he had a transponder he shared among 3 different aircraft, we asked if he re-certified them each time he removed it and installed in another aircraft. He said no and proceeded to argue with us for 15 minutes on why he didn't need to. Some people...

[flyboy0681]

20 hours ago, mooniac15u said:

Why not a KT-76C as a replacement transponder?

The quote for a KT76C is $900 installed, which is what we will probably do. Thanks again for the suggestion.

[N6758N]

51 minutes ago, flyboy0681 said:

The quote for a KT76C is $900 installed, which is what we will probably do. Thanks again for the suggestion.

Find a new shop, that's a slide in replacement and you should only be paying $400ish for the transponder plus maybe 1 hour for labor. 

[flyboy0681]

8 minutes ago, N6758N said:

Find a new shop, that's a slide in replacement and you should only be paying $400ish for the transponder plus maybe 1 hour for labor. 

I'm not so sure about that, the average price on eBay for a used one is about $650.

[N6758N]

Just now, flyboy0681 said:

I'm not so sure about that, the average price on eBay for a used one is about $650.

Ouch, I guess it's been a while since I looked. I would still go with the GTX-327, its cheaper and more reliable, albeit more to install. Just my $.02.

[jetdriven]

KT76C is just a 76A with the pretty face on it still the same old cavity tube transponder which eventually will fail. Run it to failure and then get a 330ES with ADSB. 

[N601RX]

4 hours ago, N6758N said:

Correct Mike. I remember a few years back at Oshkosh, a gentleman came up to the booth my company had (avionics shop) and told us he had a transponder he shared among 3 different aircraft, we asked if he re-certified them each time he removed it and installed in another aircraft. He said no and proceeded to argue with us for 15 minutes on why he didn't need to. Some people...

Re certification is not required, some basic test are.  For a transponder with a serial data bus to the encoder a single correct reading at a know field elevation is good enough.  If using parallel gillham code then the correspondence test is required to verify each of the lines is actually connected and flipping state.

(5) Removal and Replacement. Removal and replacement of transponder units,
subsequent to testing a system in accordance with § 91.413, will not invalidate the test results. A
repaired or replacement transponder may be installed without repeating § 91.413 testing;
however, a manufacturer’s minimum performance test will be performed before return to service.
Any time the aircraft connections to a transponder have been removed and reconnected, each
altitude reporting code line (in the case of the newer aircraft, the digital data bus) must be tested
for integrity of connection. Integrity of connection for systems using a digital data bus to convey
altitude information to a transponder may be verified by successful reporting of a single altitude.
Integrity of connection for systems using Gillham code connections may be verified by
performing an abbreviated correspondence test at the test points of Appendix 1, Table 1 using the
installed automatic pressure altitude encoding device or through the use of an encoder substation
test unit capable of simulation of the Appendix 1, Table 1 altitudes.

Edited December 21, 2017 by N601RX

[65MooneyPilot]

I installed a Trig Transponder (TT 31) which is a direct replacement for the King KT-76A. It is a good unit and does not have a cavity tube. 

[LANCECASPER]

3 hours ago, 65MooneyPilot said:

I installed a Trig Transponder (TT 31) which is a direct replacement for the King KT-76A. It is a good unit and does not have a cavity tube. 

The Trig TT31, the King KT74 and the Avidyne AXP340 are all the same transponders made by Trig, just with difference faces on them.. I have the AXP340 version and am well satisfied. The King and Avidyne versions have direct enter number buttons which makes it a little easier. The face on the King probably looks the best in my opinion, although some people have mentioned that it is not bright enough if viewed at an angle. All three have the same functions - just different button pushes to get there.

Trig

King

Avidyne

[65MooneyPilot]

I installed the Trig because last year they were the only manufacturer that gave you the STC for ADSB out when you buy the Transponder. So any A&P could install it. Since then Garmin has been selling one of there Transponders with the STC until December.  Not a factor for you. I just thought I would give you the rest of the story. 

Edited December 23, 2017 by 65MooneyPilot