New (to me) plane - advice on first avionics purchase

[nightmoves]

Going off topic slightly, but, I do see several generic "AMSAFE" harnesses on Ebay. This may be a silly question, but are there certain units that will fit? I see some that are inertia units that are reasonably priced assuming they fit. The listings really don't give much info other than they are used and pulled from other (generic) aircraft.

[carusoam]

1) engine monitor.

2) Fuel flow with totalizer.

3) adsb

4) seat belts

5) Dan left off the CO indicator for some reason? Low cost but pretty important.

6) portable radio, VOR, ILS

7) portable gps

8) ipad, iPhone or other device

9) WingX, Foreflight, Garmin you decide... or other supplier of software.

10) Training... Transition Training is a great idea.  MAPA training .  Instrument Rating?

11) Decent headset

12) Knowledge... know that the first annual is going to reveal a surprise that didn't show up in the PPI

This is mostly a summary  ideas posted above, some personal things have been added from my first M20 experience...

Best regards,

-a-

[gsxrpilot]

Fixed it for ya...

1) Seat belts with shoulder harnesses.

2) Engine Monitor with Data logging.

3) Fuel flow with totalizer.

4) ADS-B

5) Dan left off the CO indicator for some reason? Low cost but pretty important.

6) portable radio, VOR, ILS

7) portable gps

8) ipad, iPhone or other device

9) WingX, Foreflight, Garmin you decide... or other supplier of software.

10) Training... Transition Training is a great idea.  MAPA training .  Instrument Rating?

11) Decent headset

12) Knowledge... know that the first annual is going to reveal a surprise that didn't show up in the PPI

[Guest]

12 hours ago, nightmoves said:

Hi everyone.

Wow, thanks for all the responses. I've enjoyed reading them and look forward to any more that come my way. It does seem like the engine monitor is the way to go as far as a panel upgrade is concerned. This money is supposed to be used for something considered to be an 'upgrade' to the aircraft, so technically I can't use it for something considered maintenance, if that makes sense.

I have indeed considered the shoulder harness upgrade for the front seats. I've only been able to find one manufacturer, Alpha Aviation, that sells them. Are there other sources to obtain these parts? I know everything in aviation is expensive but $500 per seat belt seems high to me (but maybe it isn't?).

I don't mind putting in the work to assist installing items to save some cash. I am actually looking forward to my first (owner assisted) annual to really get to know my plane. Let's just say I hope the comment about a $10k annual isn't something that is a rule of thumb. It just went through an extensive pre-buy and I would be disappointed if that many items came up right off that bat. That said, again, everything in aviation is expensive!

Facial reconstructive surgery, if you live through the crash will set you back more than $500.00. 

Clarence

[Yetti]

There is a thread on Hooker Harness shoulder belt. You can fly off a tablet and adsb in for $300.00. Did you post a panel pic of what you have?

[DanM20C]

16 hours ago, carusoam said:

1) engine monitor.

2) Fuel flow with totalizer.

3) adsb

4) seat belts

5) Dan left off the CO indicator for some reason? Low cost but pretty important.

6) portable radio, VOR, ILS

7) portable gps

8) ipad, iPhone or other device

9) WingX, Foreflight, Garmin you decide... or other supplier of software.

10) Training... Transition Training is a great idea.  MAPA training .  Instrument Rating?

11) Decent headset

12) Knowledge... know that the first annual is going to reveal a surprise that didn't show up in the PPI

This is mostly a summary  ideas posted above, some personal things have been added from my first M20 experience...

Best regards,

-a-

Not sure what I was thinking. Possibly long term CO poisoning effects. At least that's what I tell my wife when I forget something

Yes, CO detector and shoulder harnesses.  The Sensorcon discount is still available. www.sensorcon.com, CODE:  aircraft2017 for 20% off any of their products.

Guardian has also offered a 20% discount.  I have the details at my office and I'll post a new thread with all the info on Monday.

Back to the OP.  If you are in need of spending 3K on upgrades the shoulder harness should be on the top.  The diagonal bruise across my chest was impressive.  It took a lot of energy to make that bruise, had I not been wearing a shoulder harness all that energy would have been between my face and instrument panel.  I believe I would have been killed.  $1K for both front seats does seem to be a lot of money, you may be able to save by shopping around.  I think $1K is worth it though. We never scoff at paying 1K+/year for hull coverage.  If I wasn't wearing harness my hull coverage wouldn't have helped me out much.

I have met the owner of Alpha.  A friend of mine bought an airplane from him a few years ago and I picked it up with him.  He seems like a great guy.  I know he has put in a tremendous amount of work and time getting all his STC's though the FAA.  Combine that with how little volume there is in this market and I don't think his prices are that far off.  

[nightmoves]

1 hour ago, DanM20C said:

Not sure what I was thinking. Possibly long term CO poisoning effects. At least that's what I tell my wife when I forget something

Yes, CO detector and shoulder harnesses.  The Sensorcon discount is still available. www.sensorcon.com, CODE:  aircraft2017 for 20% off any of their products.

Guardian has also offered a 20% discount.  I have the details at my office and I'll post a new thread with all the info on Monday.

Back to the OP.  If you are in need of spending 3K on upgrades the shoulder harness should be on the top.  The diagonal bruise across my chest was impressive.  It took a lot of energy to make that bruise, had I not been wearing a shoulder harness all that energy would have been between my face and instrument panel.  I believe I would have been killed.  $1K for both front seats does seem to be a lot of money, you may be able to save by shopping around.  I think $1K is worth it though. We never scoff at paying 1K+/year for hull coverage.  If I wasn't wearing harness my hull coverage wouldn't have helped me out much.

I have met the owner of Alpha.  A friend of mine bought an airplane from him a few years ago and I picked it up with him.  He seems like a great guy.  I know he has put in a tremendous amount of work and time getting all his STC's though the FAA.  Combine that with how little volume there is in this market and I don't think his prices are that far off.  

Thanks for the advice. It sounds like your accident made you a believer and I'm guessing your story alone will cause me to do that immediately. Whether or not my banker will consider that an 'upgrade' is the question since their angle is that I do something that increases the value of the plane (to them). Whether or not it counts, I am looking into doing it.

[KSMooniac]

It might upgrade your ability to pay the loan in the event of a forced landing! Pay out of your pocket if need be, and spend the so-called upgrade money on the engine monitor.

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk

[tigers2007]

Money goes quick with avionics. My $18k plane has easily had $25k in avionics installed and I haven't even owned it for a year yet. Just plan ahead for the $1500-2500 annual and that nasty $1700 insurance bill. Oh an the $1800 annual hangar bill...
On the other hand, I'm selling a GNC-300XL in the classifieds section. Make me an offer I cannot refuse. My insurance bill is due to arrive soon.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jetdriven]

 Hanger in Houston is 5 grand a year. Same as half moon bay.   South Florida is 8 grand.  

[ArtVandelay]

Annual in these parts are $2000 for the inspection/oil change, squawks are extra. My first years maintenance expenses were $12K...some of which was optional.

[jetdriven]

8 hours ago, teejayevans said:

Annual in these parts are $2000 for the inspection/oil change, squawks are extra. My first years maintenance expenses were $12K...some of which was optional.

Yes the first year is always the most painful. Then, if the engine doesn't go bad, it's easier after that.

large bills after that are usually self-inflicted. 

Edited August 7, 2017 by jetdriven

[Yetti]

Well it actually added up to 13K .  We never used the cylinder so that is still in the spares.

[nightmoves]

Spoke with the banker today, he said "I don't care what you do with the money so as long as its adding something "new" to the aircraft' - so a new harness for the front seats it is. Does everyone suggest doing with Alpha fixed harness? I've been searching and can't find a good answer on whether there is something from Hooker or AMSafe that would work. I'm going to keep researching engine monitors. There are a couple options available in that $2-3.5k range that I really think will pay for themselves over time with maximum efficiency.

 

Thanks to all.

[KSMooniac]

JPI has a $400 rebate right now for the EDM 900. Lookup@aerodon here to buy one, or other perhaps used kits.

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk

[carusoam]

Did you search around here?

There is plenty of info regarding those companies.  The key people you can talk to should be in there as well.

Let us know if you need help with the search function.

i like your commitment to safety. 

Best regards,

-a-

[Yetti]

Try putting this in Google  site: moonyspace.com harness

[steingar]

First, I suggest in the strongest possible terms not to put in any kind of handheld "dock".  Airplanes that had those were mostly automatic refusals for me.  Handheld technology changes rapidly, why tie yourself to what's out now?

I agree with the other posters, shoulder harnesses are a must.  I would put an ADSB transponder at the top of the avionics list.  You'll need it after 2020, and I doubt the prices are really going to do down any on stuff we can use in our aircraft.  Costs big bucks to certify this stuff.  After 2020 it will be a pain to fly lots of places without.  And my guess is after 2020 if you go to sell an airplane without ADSB you'll be putting it in whether you like it or not.

The rest are want to haves.  The transponder is a must have, it really isn't optional.  The good news is if you do it right, the transponder will give you the thing you need most of all.  Situational awareness.

[Marauder]

4 minutes ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

Eliminating an otherwise excellent plane because it has a handheld dock is a really interesting approach to aircraft purchasing.  But we all have to have our own search criteria and having purchased a J with almost 10,000 hours TTAF that survived a mid-air most people probably wouldn't agree with mine, either. 

Mid-air? Never knew about this. What happened?

[jetdriven]

2 hours ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

Eliminating an otherwise excellent plane because it has a handheld dock is a really interesting approach to aircraft purchasing.  But we all have to have our own search criteria and having purchased a J with almost 10,000 hours TTAF that survived a mid-air most people probably wouldn't agree with mine, either. 

This plane has an Aera 660 dock. What a mistake  

[ArtVandelay]

7 minutes ago, jetdriven said:

This plane has an Aera 660 dock. What a mistake  

That doesn't bother me a bit, the pilot's yoke needs some work, and I'm not sure what's up with piece of paper stuck in the panel seem on the left side?

[jetdriven]

You  can't have it all.  The paper is to prevent squeaking from the pilot panel rubbing the panel left of it. The avionics shop didnt clock the rubber mounts right and that gap was too small 

[AndyFromCB]

4 hours ago, steingar said:

First, I suggest in the strongest possible terms not to put in any kind of handheld "dock".  Airplanes that had those were mostly automatic refusals for me.  Handheld technology changes rapidly, why tie yourself to what's out now?

Yes, because changing to a newer, latest and the greatest style of $99 dock is such a great giant pain ;-) On the other having a ton of wires hanging all over the cockpit and a RAM mount to pierce your sternum in crash makes planes that much more sellable. In a plane with no radar a panel mounted Garmin 796 connected to a GPS navigator does for $2.5K what $15K of certified avionics accomplishes, with $12.5K left for fuel or that new fancy autopilot from Garmin.

[ArtVandelay]

For those with panel mount portables, other than a moving map what else do they provide?

Do they have ADS-B displays (traffic, wx)?  How do they connect (wires, wireless)?

Given the position most are put in (right stack), I assume you don't really interface with it much, just display moving map, etc?

Why not get ipad mini+GP and panel dock (would be only $400 not counting GP subscription)?

 

[AndyFromCB]

13 minutes ago, teejayevans said:

For those with panel mount portables, other than a moving map what else do they provide?

Do they have ADS-B displays (traffic, wx)?  How do they connect (wires, wireless)?

Given the position most are put in (right stack), I assume you don't really interface with it much, just display moving map, etc?

Why not get ipad mini+GP and panel dock (would be only $400 not counting GP subscription)?

 

796:

XM Weather

Synthetic Vision and a Backup Attitude (Garmin GDL39)

Audible Terrain and Obstacle call outs

ADSB Traffic

Approach Plates

Real WASS GPS receiver good enough to shoot an approach if need be

Sunlight readable screen

All for $2500

Edited August 8, 2017 by AndyFromCB