IFR Hold for Release Question

[PMcClure]

Hi guys, long time no post. Busy life for sure. But still flying! 

I have a question about an experience I had this week. I was in Destin, FL and departing to come home IFR (VMC conditions). The procedures are a little unique in the area as it is special use air space and under control of Eglin Air base. I contacted Clearance in the FBO and was give a clearance and asked to contact Eglin again on 132.1 when I was #1 for take off and Hold for release. After start up and taxi out, I joined the conga line including Netjets, cessna 172's, helicopters, and every other type of plane. Reception was a problem and I could not receive transmissions from Eglin. After several requests and no answer I departed VFR and called departure, reported 300' for 1,000 and noted I was VFR and requesting clearance, which I received. The controller rolled right into the next departure and didn't seem to mind. 

I didn't seem to be the only one having problems as departures were going very slow. It was legal VFR and you are not required to contact departure before departing VFR. That is only required if IFR. Any comments on my procedures? What would you have done?

[gsxrpilot]

Exactly the same thing.

[N601RX]

It's just south of me. I'm VFR and have always set and waited for the  clearance at the end of the runway as the sign says. It takes a while sometimes. Their is a online class or bulletin you can take on flying into Destin. I think it was part a the wings program. 

[BradB]

In that situation, probably would do the same thing.   If no one was waiting on me, or if it was IMC, then I would have called clearance delivery back on my cell and they would probably give the OK with a void time.

Edit:  Please see the response and my comment below.

[N601RX]

https://www.faasafety.gov/gslac/ALC/course_content.aspx?cID=47&sID=279&preview=true

All departing VFR aircraft MUST CONTACT EGLIN CLEARANCE PRIOR TO TAKEOFF for departure instructions, a discrete squawk, and Departure frequency.

Edited July 6, 2017 by N601RX

[BradB]

2 minutes ago, N601RX said:

https://www.faasafety.gov/gslac/ALC/course_content.aspx?cID=47&sID=279&preview=true

All departing VFR aircraft MUST CONTACT EGLIN CLEARANCE PRIOR TO TAKEOFF for departure instructions, a discrete squawk, and Departure frequency.

Good to know.  Thanks.  I am not familiar with that area.  Please take my comment above in the context of a generic uncontrolled field with no special conditions attached to it.   

 

Brad

[rbridges]

I'm glad to know you had reception issues, too. i thought it was just me. I thought Destin was getting a control tower. Figured it would be done by now. 

[PMcClure]

53 minutes ago, N601RX said:

https://www.faasafety.gov/gslac/ALC/course_content.aspx?cID=47&sID=279&preview=true

All departing VFR aircraft MUST CONTACT EGLIN CLEARANCE PRIOR TO TAKEOFF for departure instructions, a discrete squawk, and Departure frequency.

Yes, all VFR traffic must contact Eglin clearance and have a code before take off. I did have a code and had contacted clearance and did have instructions. The problem was reception at the end of 14. I could not reach departure on 132.1 as requested by clearance and did not have a number to call Eglin. I thought about taxi back but this would not have been possible either without taking the runway. Since I had a code, departure freq and instructions (maintain RR heading, below 1600'), I think it was a legal VFR departure. Other planes were having trouble raising them as well. 

[N601RX]

I've noticed many times it takes them a very long time to respond. We have another member here who is stationed there and may know more or I can ask my former instructor who is an AF pilot there. 

[kpaul]

Call them on your cell phone 850-882-9151.  That is what I do flying out of Defuniak Springs just on the north side of the Eglin Range but can not talk to them from there on the ground. 

I have never had issues contacting them from Destin, but I do not go in there with my Mooney, and regularly hear IFR aircraft talking to approach prior to departure.

[mike_elliott]

1 hour ago, N601RX said:

It's just south of me. I'm VFR and have always set and waited for the  clearance at the end of the runway as the sign says. It takes a while sometimes. Their is a online class or bulletin you can take on flying into Destin. I think it was part a the wings program. 

At the Mooney Summit V this year, from noon to 1 on airport day, Friday Sept 29th, James Roncaglione from Tindall AFB (the guy in charge of the military airspace) is going to give a presentation about "sharing our airspace" the Mooney Summit airport day is open to all and does not require registration. We have had a great relationship with the people at Tindall and they really support what the Mooney Summit is all about. This could be a great opportunity to learn from some of our finest.

www.mooneysummit.com

[N601RX]

Paul, you will find the answer to the situation you described at the end of chapter 3 under departures in the link I posted above. There are certain conditions you can go ahead and depart.  I also believe they have a second freq available 

[PMcClure]

20 minutes ago, N601RX said:

Paul, you will find the answer to the situation you described at the end of chapter 3 under departures in the link I posted above. There are certain conditions you can go ahead and depart.  I also believe they have a second freq available 

Thanks, that is a good read. But I don't see my exact situation. I could not receive on the assigned frequency on the ground. On an earlier flight this week, I had the same issue with 14 departure, but was finally able to receive, but very broken. This time, I did hear Eglin departure say "...how...now....". But that was all I could make out after several attempts and several minutes. 

Reading Chapter 2:

"VFR Outbound Flights

The main thing to remember about departing Destin VFR is that the Part 93 Airspace starts at the surface and goes up. Thus you need to call Eglin Clearance Delivery on 121.6 BEFORE takeoff and get departure instructions, a discrete squawk (if so equipped), and a Departure Control frequency."

I believe this was a safe departure. But was this a legal VFR departure? I had contacted clearance delivery, had departure instructions, a squawk code and departure freq.

1 hour ago, kpaul said:

Call them on your cell phone 850-882-9151.  That is what I do flying out of Defuniak Springs just on the north side of the Eglin Range but can not talk to them from there on the ground. 

 

Thanks a lot  - this is the number for Eglin Departure? I'll keep it handy for my next trip. 

[kpaul]

Just now, PMcClure said:

Thanks a lot  - this is the number for Eglin Departure?

Yes that is their number.  I have received my IFR numerous times via the phone.  I can Bluetooth to my Bose so it is just like making a radio call.

[N601RX]

Here is the part I was referring to that was  similiar.  I think he was trying to get you to ask for a vfr departure when you  could only make out him saying how .  This would have allowed you to meet item 4 below.

 

Under very special circumstances, an IFR aircraft may takeoff from Destin VFR. Four conditions MUST be met:

1. You must have received your clearance from Eglin Clearance Delivery and told to “hold for release.”

2. The weather must be VMC and you must be sure you can maintain VMC until you establish two way radio contact in the air.

3. You must be Number 1 at the active Runway, awaiting release, and

4. You must have requested release from Eglin Departure and Eglin has advised that you should expect an X minute delay for arriving IFR traffic.

In this case, you are being held to preserve IFR separation with someone else in the area. If you ask for a VFR departure to pick up your IFR in the air, Eglin Approach will generally allow you to do this under these special conditions. Sample Transmission:

Pilot: Eglin Departure, Cessna 12345, in that case [you have just been told to expect an X minute delay for arriving traffic] I request a VFR departure and pick up my IFR in the air.

[neilpilot]

Years ago, as I approached Destin and talking to Eglin, I relayed a code for an aircraft on the ground and waiting to depart who was also unable to communicate with Destin.  While the phone call is probably better, maybe you could consider an ground-to-air relay attempt.

[PMcClure]

Now accredited with the Destin course. Thanks for the recommendation. 

Seems like a known issue at Destin. With as many departures and arrivals that are typical at Destin it is surprising that the issue has not been corrected. 

[kpaul]

1 minute ago, PMcClure said:

Now accredited with the Destin course. Thanks for the recommendation. 

Seems like a known issue at Destin. With as many departures and arrivals that are typical at Destin it is surprising that the issue has not been corrected. 

As soon as the tower opens this will all be a problem of the past, except when the tower is closed of course.  Eglin approach is only 5nm away across the bay, surprised so many are having difficulties with comms.  My base is about 25 nm away, as long as I am above the trees comms are not a problem with Eglin.

[N601RX]

I thought at one time they had a repeater located on the field at destin?

[PMcClure]

Just now, kpaul said:

As soon as the tower opens this will all be a problem of the past, except when the tower is closed of course.  Eglin approach is only 5nm away across the bay, surprised so many are having difficulties with comms.  My base is about 25 nm away, as long as I am above the trees comms are not a problem with Eglin.

14 departure is hidden behind trees and buildings. I had no problem at 32 or immediately after departure. Jets didn't seem to have trouble but my little antenna is only about 6 feet off the ground. Looks like the tower will open Nov. 1 based on news articles. 

 

 

 

[N601RX]

Next time your down there try reaching them on 121.6. I believe that is their remote outlet located on the field.

[PMcClure]

Just now, N601RX said:

Next time your down there try reaching them on 121.6. I believe that is their remote outlet located on the field.

Thanks for the suggestions. That is the ground outlet for clearance delivery that I spoke to in the FBO. 132.1 is for departures. But it would have been a good try as they could have relayed the information form departure (I suppose). 

[Browncbr1]

If not at a towered field, I always depart VFR if clear VMC like that... For me, It's just easier on the ground and getting airborne and on the way quickly.

Even when under a bravo veil, I still do that and just stay below the B until I pickup the needed clearance..