Mount Mitchell turbulence

[Bartman]

We flew from KY to FL yesterday at 9,000 ft and the remnants of TD Cindy gave us quite a ride.  As we approached Mt Mitchell in the KAVL area the 430 was calculating 45knot winds out of 240 with the most pronounced mountain wave I have personally seen j that area. It gave the Alt Hold a real workout and IAS as low as 95 to maintain 9,000 ft. Lots of small rotors could be seen spinning, and a few you could not see. We were between layers so I asked for block from 9K to 10K and by the time I climbed just a couple hundred feet all was smooth again. 

It wasn't that bad only occasional moderate turbulence and only lasted about 1 hour, but got me thinking about flying out west where it goes on for hundreds of miles and far worse wave, rotor, turbulence activity. 

[Hank]

The worst turbulence I've experienced was northbound through there, starting just before AVL and lasting 25-30 minutes. My track was west of Mt. Mitchell with westerly winds. At least none of my fillings were knocked out. The guy who went to SnF with me said it was also the worst he'd flown through . . . We were expecting some that day, having crossed GA and 6000 until terrain made me climb. Went to 10,000 first, then 11,000, hoping to reduce the shaking, but it didn't help.

 Usually it's been pretty smooth, but I did get a very relaxed mountain wave once, 200-300 feet above and below cruise altitude.

[neilpilot]

6 minutes ago, Bartman said:

We flew from KY to FL yesterday at 9,000 ft and the remnants of TD Cindy gave us quite a ride.  As we approached Mt Mitchell in the KAVL area the 430 was calculating 45knot winds out of 240 with the most pronounced mountain wave I have personally seen j that area. It gave the Alt Hold a real workout

In situations like this I usually consider it best to disengage Alt Hold and ride it out by hand.

[Bartman]

1 hour ago, neilpilot said:

In situations like this I usually consider it best to disengage Alt Hold and ride it out by hand.

I did turn it off after a few minutes, but it was interesting to see what its limitations were. 

[Steve W]

My autopilot did pretty well with some fun pre-thunderstorms in NM/AZ. I think I only kicked it off once or twice in the 3 hours of getting beat up. Probably only +-20kts. My actual two worst were pre-mooney, one in Southern California at about 2000' above Santiago Peak and once at Shelter Cove in Northern California, both had enough to drop me hundreds of feet, both times with passengers and both times I executed the 'screw this, we're going somwehre else' plan. I don't think I've had the same experiences in the Sierras since I simply don't go that way if it's looking ugly.

 

[KLRDMD]

I've had three really bad turbulence experiences, and flying out west year round for close to 30 years - trust me, what would be considered bad in the east is nothing. These are "questioning if you ever want to fly again" turbulence episodes. 

At 14,500 ft coming back from Sante Fe to Tucson, I had continuous moderate to very regular and repeated severe turbulence the entire route. When I got on the ground, it was the happiest I had been in a long time. That was in a Mooney Bravo.

Flying from Tucson to Scottsdale, it was a normal beautiful flight. On downwind to SDL I had the most severe single jolt turbulence of my life. My seatbelt was typical tight, probably could have been a tough tighter but wasn't loose by any means. I hit my head on the ceiling so hard I was bleeding quite a bit and surprised I was still conscious. The tower even called and asked if I was OK. I figured they must have seen something. I pulled the ATC tapes later and realized why they asked if everything was alright. It seems when the turbulence hit I also inadvertently pushed the PTT and on the tape was me staying (very distressed) "oh shit !!!" That was in an F model Mooney.

The absolute worst turbulence of my life though was also in the Bravo. I was coming back to Tucson from Las Vegas. I chose to park at North Las Vegas that time, but have only been going into Henderson for years now. I didn't feel like dealing with LAS so I initially went westward under the bravo until clear of it and then climbed. Mt. Charleston is in that area as well as other mountains. And there was a significant, very strong wind from the west. I got the crap beat out of me until I could climb. Staying under the bravo meant below 1,000 AGL, in the summer, in the heat with the tremendous mountain waves coming toward me. One definition of severe turbulence is loss of control of the aircraft and by that definition I had ten episodes of severe turbulence in ten minutes, all below 1,000 AGL. Each episode was no more than two seconds but that was not a fun ride whatsoever !!!

[FloridaMan]

When winds are high, I try to stay on the windward side of the hills by a fair margin. You pick up a little speed and I imagine the air does water does when it goes over a boulder, so I figure the swirlyness isn't as pronounced on the windward side. 

I've experienced turbulence in the appalachians that I regarded as kindof fun, where I'd get pushed around at maybe 2-3G, but it was smooth and I could maintain control of the airplane.

The worst turbulence I've ever experienced, which was not fun, was on my way to Las Vegas. I'd been pushing a 50kt headwind at 11,000ft just west of ABQ early in the afternoon in October. The ride was pretty smooth and the skies were clear. Suddenly and without warning, it was like a little kid grabbed my airplane and did what kids do when they play with toy airplanes. I was along for the ride. I remember thinking I was done with flying and that I wanted to land immediately and just walk away. 

I've gotten caught in a buildup at night in Florida where I thought I was penetrating a haze layer at 1500ft. I came out of the side at 9500ft, after what I considered fighting for my life to keep wings level and airspeed at 120, and to put as much distance between myself and the ground as possible. That buildup required full control deflection and I barely remember most of the experience because of the workload. However, it did not compare to what I experienced on a clear day in New Mexico. 

[Skates97]

I haven't had any really rough stuff yet, but my dad told me the story about the worst turbulence he was ever in during his Air Force days. They were giving cadets from the Academy rides in T-38's. He said as he was coming back from the west over Pikes Peak they began their descent and he lost complete control of the plane, helmet banging off the canopy, and just along for the ride. They were eventually out of it and he regained control. After landing and look back toward the peak they could see rotor clouds that weren't there before, or they hadn't seen coming from the direction they were. There were paint marks on the canopy from where his helmet had banged into it and analysis showed that they had over-stressed the airframe both positive and negative G's. They also canceled the rest of the flights for the day.

He has other stories about rough stuff flying HC-130's in Alaska around the mountains and canyons there looking for downed planes, stranded hikers, etc... but said nothing compared to that flight in the T-38.

[Guitarmaster]

Wow.  Reading this thread brought back some bad memories....
 

Flying a Seneca 2 along V2 GEG to SEA late at night.  Winds over the mountains 130+ knots rolling over Mt. Rainier.  Going to GEG was smooth with with good groundspeed.  Coming back, very slow, but smooth.... till about 45 east of SEA.  For those unfamiliar, that's just past the foothills of the cascades.  

I started the party at 10000MSL and all hell broke loose.  The first hit took me to roughly 18000 with idle power and mostly out of control.  Then three HUGE jolts and down to around 6100 (MEA for V2 is 8000).  Three jolts and back up to 16000ish then back down to around 6500.  Keep in mind, the engines were from overboost to idle (at this point is didn't give a crap about engine health) and the airspeed was between zero and Vne+20     I broke the overhead panel with my head, and the DG tumbled (thank the good LORD the attitude didn't tumble)!  Finally flew out of it about five minutes later shaking and freezing.  I had to pry my hand off the throttles.  Needless to say, I was scared!

Upon landing at BFI, I literally couldn't get out of the plane and SERIOUSLY considered my career choice.  Decided I really did love flying that much to keep going.

Result of aircraft inspection:

- Main wing spar bent in two places
- MANY rivets popped or missing
- Tail twisted
- Engine mount broken

The mechanic told me I was a lucky guy.  No kidding.  I went for the ride!

Lessons learned:  

- Mountain rotors are nothing to screw with
- Piper makes a much stronger airframe than I gave them credit for at the time.
- You are Fu**ed partial panel in that situation 
- That was back in 1995 and it still remember it like yesterday.

Hoping to never have a repeat performance!

[FloridaMan]

On 6/25/2017 at 10:39 PM, Guitarmaster said:

Wow.  Reading this thread brought back some bad memories....
 

Flying a Seneca 2 along V2 GEG to SEA late at night.  Winds over the mountains 130+ knots rolling over Mt. Rainier.  Going to GEG was smooth with with good groundspeed.  Coming back, very slow, but smooth.... till about 45 east of SEA.  For those unfamiliar, that's just past the foothills of the cascades.  

I started the party at 10000MSL and all hell broke loose.  The first hit took me to roughly 18000 with idle power and mostly out of control.  Then three HUGE jolts and down to around 6100 (MEA for V2 is 8000).  Three jolts and back up to 16000ish then back down to around 6500.  Keep in mind, the engines were from overboost to idle (at this point is didn't give a crap about engine health) and the airspeed was between zero and Vne+20     I broke the overhead panel with my head, and the DG tumbled (thank the good LORD the attitude didn't tumble)!  Finally flew out of it about five minutes later shaking and freezing.  I had to pry my hand off the throttles.  Needless to say, I was scared!

Upon landing at BFI, I literally couldn't get out of the plane and SERIOUSLY considered my career choice.  Decided I really did love flying that much to keep going.

Result of aircraft inspection:

- Main wing spar bent in two places
- MANY rivets popped or missing
- Tail twisted
- Engine mount broken

The mechanic told me I was a lucky guy.  No kidding.  I went for the ride!

Lessons learned:  

- Mountain rotors are nothing to screw with
- Piper makes a much stronger airframe than I gave them credit for at the time.
- You are Fu**ed partial panel in that situation 
- That was back in 1995 and it still remember it like yesterday.

Hoping to never have a repeat performance!

So what happened to the airframe? I mean, was it scrapped or returned to service?

Edited June 27, 2017 by Antares

[Guitarmaster]

So what happened to the airframe? I mean, was it scrapped or returned to service?

When I left the company, they were still trying to fix it some six months later.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

[Danb]

I actually had nasty turbulence yesterday, Monday, approaching Lake Erie, yes I gave a PIREP, there was a water spout on my course an hour or so before. The sky had strange cumulus looking clouds. My wife said she hurt her ribs during the 20 minute ride. I had no PIREPs along my route provided. I found out about the spouts via the internet and YouTube. The tops were only 10,000 was totally surprised about the ride. With the AP off went went from 8000 to 9600 in a blink. My bride is considering bwalking home from Canada later this week, Once over Lake Erie it dissipated quickly. Flying is fun.