Avionics Upgrade Opinions

[INA201]

Good morning. I'm going to price some upgrades to my avionics and wanted to get your opinions on what I'm thinking of doing.  I'm currently leaning towards a GTN650(sell the 430w) ps8000b audio, GTX345 adsb, upgrading the JPI700 to a 730(don't want to spend the $ on primary yet), gonna price GPSS for the Century 2b too.  I will mostly use the iPad connected to the 650 for flight planning input and traffic.  What do you guys think for replacing the separate NAV and Comm radios? Should I just ride them out as they function just fine?  I'm holding out on autopilot upgrades and things like the G5 for now too because I don't want to get over 18amus on this round.  Any thoughts or opinions on this plan? 

[Piloto]

I would go for a bigger screen like the G530 or IFD540. The bigger screen makes a significant difference on the map display. Less need to zoom or scroll and more data presented on a single page.

José 

[Godfather]

I would go for the ifd440 for the cheap install. If you have a larger budget I'd go for the 540 or 750 ... should cost around 12.5 if you can find a used one.  

[ArtVandelay]

I would go for a bigger screen like the G530 or IFD540. The bigger screen makes a significant difference on the map display. Less need to zoom or scroll and more data presented on a single page.
José 

If you get a Flightstream, then your iPad can be your big screen for the map view, etc. Just use GPS for data input.

[INA201]

I was thinking iPad for the bigger screen but don't want to have regrets either.  Im going to get pricing for both and weigh it all out. Avidyne has a great product but my concern with them is long term company strength only otherwise I would go that route in a heartbeat. 

[Browncbr1]

If you want a GTN650, then I would suggest keeping the 430w and sell the nav, com and CDI....   

I would hold off on everything until Osh to see if the G5 gets AP output, ..if that happens, also watch for Aspen price drop...  then decide which one and do it all together at once.  Less down time and maybe a lower overall cost.

I would suggest to go with an EDM830 rather than 730... you get a few more key features like FF, which can calculate additional data using GPS NEMA data.

[gsxrpilot]

Here's my $0.02, but I have done a lot of research in this area and am buried in a panel upgrade right now.

I think your plan is sound because everything you're doing (except the 730) is in the center radio stack. That means cheaper installation costs. As soon as you touch anything in the left panel in front of the pilot, you're in a whole new tax bracket for installation. Therefore staying away from G5, Aspen, etc. is a good plan. You'll do that one day, but separate from the center stack is smart.

But here's where I'll differ with you. First of all, why go from EDM-700 to 730? I don't see that that makes much difference. I'd hold off until you're ready to go 900 Primary.

Also, I'll agree with others that a large screen GPS will be much better. I'd certainly go Avidyne to get the IFD100 app on the iPad for a truly large screen experience. But there is a difference between the IFD100 + IFD440 and the IFD100 + IFD540. When paired with the smaller box (440) the IFD100 will not display IFR plates. But for a truly cost effective solution, trade your 430 in on an IFD440 for $0 installation cost.

Why the PS8000b? The PS PMA450a is a more advanced audio panel and might be less expensive. And if you do go Avidyne, you can go with the Avidyne ADSB transponder as well, AXP322 + SkyTrax100 for ADSB in/out on GPS and iPad. Avidyne is usually running a special on the combo which will reduce costs even further.

I think I've just saved you at least $5K over your original plan . Put that into the larger screen IFD540 and be happy. Avidyne isn't going anywhere despite what Peter says.

Oh, and BTW... by all means spend the $1500 to get GPSS installed for your autopilot.

[Bryan]

I just upgraded to the GTN 750 replacing one of two of my GNS 430s (not waas) but never use the 430 other than a Nav/Com but it is nice to have a separate GPS with a different antenna.  Also went with the GTX 345 which streams AHRS and GPS data to my iPad.  Have not yet had a need to get the flightstream option ($1.5 AMU?) to edit my plans from iPad to GTN, yet.  I don't have GPSS but that is next - waiting on possiblity of a G500 or an Aspen to give me than than salving GPSS to my KFC200.

I agree on the larger screen.  I *almost* went with the 650 instead but SOOO glad I sprung for the 750 instead.  This thing is awesome, really don't use my iPad except for plates.

[INA201]

My only reason for doing the 700 to 730 upgrade was for the USB port and better visual interpretation of the info. I think it is really just a display change out and around $1200 without much install costs. Maybe I should just table that idea and save the money for the left panel a year or so down the road.  I'm in the lobby of one of the avionics shops I'm looking at using as we speak.  What about the Garmin nav/coms that speak with the 650 etc in lieu of the 700-730 and just concentrate on center stack for now as a plan?  Right now I'm seeing what these guys say and the pricing to make a final decision.  If you look at the photo I've got an ammeter/voltmeter, intercom, oil pressure gauge etc on the right panel. Any thoughts on tying that in with the 700? Just leave em? Thanks guys for your input there certainly are a lot of ways and options out there.

[ArtVandelay]

I would lose the extra engine instruments on the far right, having everything right in front of you in the JPI is so nice, the upgrade path to 730/830 is fairly cheap, bit it's a big jump to 900+ bring a primary you have all new sensors, if you don't have it already, fuel flow is a must have. I would lose the temp,EGT gauge and replace it with your digital ammeter,voltmeter. You can add temp to the JPI, might as well get the 830, gives you everything the 900 has but ammeter and fuel gauges, with the more accurate FF becomes almost obsolete.

I went with the 650, so I have everything but transponder in the left stack, never felt the need for 750, remember the 650 screen is bigger than the 430.

 

[ArtVandelay]

PS.
I have never seen the compass built into the panel like that, I like that. But you iPhone location would bother me, that's exactly where I look on landings.

[Marauder]

Good morning. I'm going to price some upgrades to my avionics and wanted to get your opinions on what I'm thinking of doing.  I'm currently leaning towards a GTN650(sell the 430w) ps8000b audio, GTX345 adsb, upgrading the JPI700 to a 730(don't want to spend the $ on primary yet), gonna price GPSS for the Century 2b too.  I will mostly use the iPad connected to the 650 for flight planning input and traffic.  What do you guys think for replacing the separate NAV and Comm radios? Should I just ride them out as they function just fine?  I'm holding out on autopilot upgrades and things like the G5 for now too because I don't want to get over 18amus on this round.  Any thoughts or opinions on this plan? 

Having been through this process a few times, I would hold off until you are certain where you are headed with the final design. By doing it in pieces may seem like a savings but think of the process like surgery. Try to open the patient (panel) the fewest amount of times. Every time the panel goes under the screw gun, it is more costly.

If your long range plans are not to include glass, I would go with a 750 or 540. Coupling this with the audio panel makes sense but if you do plan on changing out the second Nav/Com, do it at the same time as the primary and audio panel.

I would also consider going with a FlightStream 510 if you go to the GTN. You would however be locked into Garmin Pilot.

As for the engine analyzer, hold off until you can get a primary replacement instrument. Even if you retain your primary analog instruments, putting in a primary capable analyzer will provide redundancy in case those 30+ primaries start failing.

Keep us posted. This is what I have done to mine.




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[Andy95W]

Chris, I swear you'll find any reason to post yet another picture of your new panel. 

[Marauder]

Chris, I swear you'll find any reason to post yet another picture of your new panel. 

What makes you say that Andy?






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[Godfather]

9 hours ago, Marauder said:

 
I would also consider going with a FlightStream 510 if you go to the GTN. You would however be locked into Garmin Pilot.
 

 

I thought the flightstream was playing nice with foreflight now?

[Marauder]

I thought the flightstream was playing nice with foreflight now?

It does for flight plan transfers. But it won't do the database concierge function.


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[Kristoffer]

On June 1, 2017 at 1:03 PM, INA201 said:

I was thinking iPad for the bigger screen but don't want to have regrets either.  Im going to get pricing for both and weigh it all out. Avidyne has a great product but my concern with them is long term company strength only otherwise I would go that route in a heartbeat. 

Well if everyone who was liked their product but was concerned about the company's longevity bought in to their products then there would not need to be a concern. Second, if you believe they offer a superior product (which i do) then ask yourself how would you be affected if they did go under. Honestly look at how many 430s are still around and how old they are. It's not like if the company went away the product would just stop working. Heck my second nav/comm is probably 30 years old.

With all that being said, I do not believe Avidyne is going anywhere. They are still coming out with new products, providing excellent customer service and their owner base keeps growing. If you don't believe me just look at how their units keep coming up more and more in conversation. Remember when Apple stock was $9 a share and everyone said they were going out of business because no one wanted a mac. How many people wished they bought stock then?? Just because there are naysayers doesn't make it true.

[Bob_Belville]

3 hours ago, Kristoffer said:

Remember when Apple stock was $9 a share and everyone said they were going out of business because no one wanted a mac. How many people wished they bought stock then?? Just because there are naysayers doesn't make it true.

Not sure if the comparison is fair but I bought 100 shares of AAPL 9/29/2000 @ $26. It split 2:1 and 7:1 so I wound up with 1400 shares @ $1.86 cost. (It closed @ $155.45 today.)  I guess Steve Jobs bought me a Mooney. And a few Garmin boxes.

[INA201]

After first meeting with a shop I've come up with a few options.  I am quoting with a Garmin dealer for round one.  We are looking at both GTNs(750 is about 5 amu more all in). Also, like some of you mentioned I'm leaning toward JPI 900 now after looking at what all we can remove and he said that only 15 hours labor would be added vs 35-40 if we did it by itself. I'm really impressed with the 900. Seems like the 900 would simplify your engine scan quit a bit and would fit right where the 700 is now.   Looking at GMA 35 remote mounted if getting the 750 or panel mounted GMA 350 with the 650. He said that he sells a lot more PS audio panels but in his opinion these newer model Garmin units are very comparable to the PS and not like the older Garmin stuff. Anyone have experience with either? GTX-345 for ADSB.  I'm going to try and find a used DAC GPSS converter that will go in as well.  I know nothing about GPSS stuff.  Also, pull the old panels and cut out new and powder coat.  Is there anything we should think through for the future when they are cutting out the panel? I know if we go with a G5 etc and a Tru Trak kind of set up it in the future it would be nice to flush mount them but wondering how you plan it that way now? Planning to clean up all of the wiring. I've got plugs and wires all over the place that seem to have no home.  You guys didn't warn me about the "while we are at it," disorder. Thanks again for all the input from you guys! This forum is great.

 

 

[Bob_Belville]

I think you're strong enough to see what you're getting into. 

[MIm20c]

The 900 is a lot of work to get installed. If you are doing a new panel and a partial rewire I'd definitely spend the extra for the 750 and 900.  IMO the 750 will be the top gps/nav/com for the next decade. 

Having said that I'm rocking the 430w with no plans to upgrade. 

Edited June 3, 2017 by MIm20c

[PTK]

I'm a firm believer in utilizing panel real estate wisely. One of the smartest things Garmin did is give us remote audio and tx. So imo I'd go with the 750 with remote audio panel and tx. Dedicate panel real estate into the big beautiful 750 rather than than an audio panel and tx. You'll appreciate the large 750. It is the workhorse that drives your entire panel. Similarly this is why I retained the large JPI 800. All the info in my scan at the perfect footprint. I believe the engine monitor should be in your scan. 

 

 

[Bob_Belville]

28 minutes ago, PTK said:

I'm a firm believer in utilizing panel real estate wisely. One of the smartest things Garmin did is give us remote audio and tx. So imo I'd go with the 750 with remote audio panel and tx.  Dedicate panel real estate into the big beautiful 750 rather than than an audio panel and tx. You'll appreciate the large 750. It is the workhorse that drives your entire panel. Similarly this is why I retained the large JPI 800. All the info in my scan at the perfect footprint. I believe the engine monitor should be in your scan. 

 

 

I chose to keep the xponder and the audio panel in my panel. The remote versions were more expensive and I thought made the 750 too busy. I can set squawk code and ident through the 750 but rarely do that - dialing in the code is about the one task Nancy has been willing to take on - and I routinely use the xponder timer function. Turning on and off the #2 Com sound (usually ATIS/AWOS) or the AOA alarm directly on the A/P is handy.

So... if you have the space, as I do, I would counsel saving money and leave those boxes in the panel. (The remote versions probably pull the w/b cg to the rear, not good for my plane.)  

[INA201]

Nice panels!  Bob, did you replace the rocker switches with your current pitot, lights, etc. or was that standard style with your plane? If I'm recutting panels is there some merit to looking into the switches too? Anyone change out the annunciator with something more modern?  I hope to only do the panel foundation one time.  The compass while in a nice location doesn't function well at all so I'm going to need to remove it and probably put a vertical card.  

[gsxrpilot]

Touch those switches and you open a whole new can of worms... insignificant as they seem, choosing to replace them will most certainly put the project into a whole other tax bracket. It will also likely throw the timeline for the project into a completely different cosmic measurement suffix. 

The latest information is $375 per switch with a lead time of between 16 weeks and never. There is possibly an underground operation to smuggle them in from an undisclosed foreign location, that might or might not be operational or legal.