Possible partnership offered in a 66 M20C

[flyhigh603]

I'm thinking heavily about offering up a partnership in my bird. She is a 1966 M20C that is stock except for newer windows.I have decided after getting a real eye opening annual to maybe see if there is any interest in partnering out my bird to keep her in a more affordable way.I don't wanna sell her but I don't wanna go into serious credit card dept to get her in the air again.Shes in mid annual and in process of getting bladders installed and haveing extensive annual done on a laundry list of deferred maintenance.She runs like a top , flew hands off with no auto pilot and have pretty decent paint and fair interior. She is bare bones with manual everything.Low time airframe with high time motor.

                                                                   Any interest out there ?? She is  based in Concord NH ( KCON )  I am thinking $15,000 half share or $10,000 1/3 share.......

 

[rbridges]

I'm sure you can find someone interested.  Post some specs and pics.  Don't forget to cross post on other websites such as pilots of america.  There have been threads about partnerships.  I've never been in one, but it would probably be a good idea to read about possible arrangements for sharing time and costs.

[Godfather]

Honestly, a good partnership will take time to form (find the right people). Get your plane fixed up and back into the air and start looking hard for member to help pay off the debt. Otherwise you might find selling it now will not bring the 30k you are valuing it at.  It takes a unique buyer to take a plane on with an incomplete annual. 

[N6758N]

25 minutes ago, flyhigh603 said:

I'm thinking heavily about offering up a partnership in my bird. She is a 1966 M20C that is stock except for newer windows.I have decided after getting a real eye opening annual to maybe see if there is any interest in partnering out my bird to keep her in a more affordable way.I don't wanna sell her but I don't wanna go into serious credit card dept to get her in the air again.Shes in mid annual and in process of getting bladders installed and haveing extensive annual done on a laundry list of deferred maintenance.She runs like a top , flew hands off with no auto pilot and have pretty decent paint and fair interior. She is bare bones with manual everything.Low time airframe with high time motor.

                                                                   Any interest out there ?? She is  based in Concord NH ( KCON )  I am thinking $15,000 half share or $10,000 1/3 share.......

 

Is this the airplane that had the tanks that were supposedly shedding sealant into the fuel system? Glad to see you decided to go with the bladders and fix it instead of selling it. If I recall correctly the engine had over 2,600hrs and had never been overhauled, correct? Your best bet is probably going to be overhauling the engine and then selling 1/2 the airplane to help recoup a good portion of the overhaul costs. You will have a tough time selling a share in the airplane with a worn out engine...

[flyboy0681]

31 minutes ago, Godfather said:

Honestly, a good partnership will take time to form (find the right people). 

I agree. From my experience people looking to get into a partnership don't come along every day.

[TTaylor]

6 hours ago, flyhigh603 said:

I'm thinking heavily about offering up a partnership in my bird. She is a 1966 M20C that is stock except for newer windows.I have decided after getting a real eye opening annual to maybe see if there is any interest in partnering out my bird to keep her in a more affordable way.I don't wanna sell her but I don't wanna go into serious credit card dept to get her in the air again.Shes in mid annual and in process of getting bladders installed and haveing extensive annual done on a laundry list of deferred maintenance.She runs like a top , flew hands off with no auto pilot and have pretty decent paint and fair interior. She is bare bones with manual everything.Low time airframe with high time motor.

                                                                   Any interest out there ?? She is  based in Concord NH ( KCON )  I am thinking $15,000 half share or $10,000 1/3 share.......

 

I had better luck by posting a nice flyer at my local FBO and letting the local mechanic know I was looking for partners.  Talk to your insurance company about requirements for hours and transition training so you can screen for those that are close to requirements. .  I set a minimum of 200 hours tt for a shareholder and preferred those with complex all ready done.  I had no trouble getting partners over about six months and have had several others on a waiting list if any of the current partners wishes to sell.  We have a very good group and it helps spread the costs and keeps the Mooney flying more often than I would by myself.

[flyhigh603]

Yes this is the same bird that had the sloshing compound found in the tanks.My Mech says I still have high compression and she makes no metal so why overhaul it now. He said wait till she starts making metal and the comps drop.My initial plan was to fly her for a few yrs , pay her off then get the motor rebuilt.But now after the tanks $11,000 installed and about $7,000 into the motor she's been a money eater first annual. I won't consider any pilot who has less than 300 hrs.

[peevee]

18 hours ago, N6758N said:

 You will have a tough time selling a share in the airplane with a worn out engine...

x2

[MyNameIsNobody]

1 hour ago, flyhigh603 said:

Yes this is the same bird that had the sloshing compound found in the tanks.My Mech says I still have high compression and she makes no metal so why overhaul it now. He said wait till she starts making metal and the comps drop.My initial plan was to fly her for a few yrs , pay her off then get the motor rebuilt.But now after the tanks $11,000 installed and about $7,000 into the motor she's been a money eater first annual. I won't consider any pilot who has less than 300 hrs.

You put $7k into an engine that has 2600 hours in service?  Why would you do that?

[Yetti]

All new heads and hoses....  good for another 2000 hours

[N6758N]

39 minutes ago, Yetti said:

All new heads and hoses....  good for another 2000 hours

Doesn't sound like it got new jugs though...Plus if the engine has never been overhauled; now you're talking about a bottom end that is 50+years old.

[peevee]

this just gets weirder and weirder.

[MyNameIsNobody]

6 hours ago, flyhigh603 said:

Yes this is the same bird that had the sloshing compound found in the tanks.My Mech says I still have high compression and she makes no metal so why overhaul it now. He said wait till she starts making metal and the comps drop.My initial plan was to fly her for a few yrs , pay her off then get the motor rebuilt.But now after the tanks $11,000 installed and about $7,000 into the motor she's been a money eater first annual. I won't consider any pilot who has less than 300 hrs.

299 hours...No soup for you!

[N6758N]

Just now, MyNameIsNobody said:

299 hours...No soup for you!

You want Mooney? 300 HOURS! NEXT!

[tony]

8 hours ago, peevee said:

this just gets weirder and weirder.

I am just amazed at the saga......sounds like the basis for a reality TV show

[gsxrpilot]

I'm gonna guess the $7K was for the annual, not engine work. But then again, as it sounds, the annual isn't done yet...

[flyhigh603]

Yes $7,000 was for annual including fixing a lot of minor discrepancies. 

 

[flyhigh603]

The reason I put $7,000 into a motor that has 2600 hrs is because it starts right up . Prop hasn't done a complete revolution and it's running, makes no metal at all in oil analysis, comps are all at 78 , uses / burns no oil at all. I think that's a great reason

 

[gsxrpilot]

2 hours ago, flyhigh603 said:

The reason I put $7,000 into a motor that has 2600 hrs is because it starts right up . Prop hasn't done a complete revolution and it's running, makes no metal at all in oil analysis, comps are all at 78 , uses / burns no oil at all. I think that's a great reason

 

$7000 into an engine with 2600 hours on it is a unquestionable waste of money. BUT a $7000 annual on an airplane with 2600 hours on a good running engine is fine. 

I probably wouldn't buy into your airplane with 2600 on the engine unless you subtracted the full cost of an overhaul from the the calculated value of the airplane.  But I'm fully on board with running an airplane as far past TBO as it will go with good compression and without making metal.

*point of order... a motor runs on electricity, an engine runs on gas/diesel/jetA, or some other fossil fuel.

[peevee]

23 hours ago, tony said:

I am just amazed at the saga......sounds like the basis for a reality TV show

Hah, it does, doesn't it?

I feel like he's maybe a little... Impulsive. I can relate to that.

[N6758N]

19 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

 

I probably wouldn't buy into your airplane with 2600 on the engine unless you subtracted the full cost of an overhaul from the the calculated value of the airplane.  But I'm fully on board with running an airplane as far past TBO as it will go with good compression and without making metal.

I agree 100% Paul. I have no problem running an 'engine'  past TBO, however if I was considering buying into a partnership, I would want a fresh engine on the airframe, or I would expect the owner to already have a substantial portion of the overhaul in a seperate fund ready to spend when overhaul is required. No one wants to spend 15k on a half share and the come to find out 1 year later that the engine requires a 25k overhaul (assuming prop + labor) that they will now have to split with their partner. 

I will share the story of my airplane because it is similar to the OPs. I bought my airplane back in 2012 with an engine right at about 2000 SMOH. The airplane was running well and there was no reason to do an overhaul, I sunk a ton of sweat equity and money into the panel and some other airframe related maintenance. All was well until I found a crack in the case (in front of #2 cylinder through stud) about 200hrs into owning the airplane. Right around this time I had met my future airplane partner, but he indicated he was a few years away from ownership. I told him all about my airplane and what I had done, and that I was planning on doing the engine. Fast forward 4 months and I had overhauled the engine and replaced every accessory firewall forward with new. After seeing the nice shiny engine and going for a few flights with me, my now partner cut me a check for 25k for a half share, he told me it was too good of an opportunity to pass up. Luckily for me this check paid for the engine overhaul and got me out of some severe debt I had incurred from doing the engine over. I guess my point here is, it would have been a much tougher sell if I had a worn out, 30 year old, leaking engine on the front of my airplane. 

[MyNameIsNobody]

20 hours ago, flyhigh603 said:

The reason I put $7,000 into a motor that has 2600 hrs is because it starts right up . Prop hasn't done a complete revolution and it's running, makes no metal at all in oil analysis, comps are all at 78 , uses / burns no oil at all. I think that's a great reason

 

OK, probably should be another thread, but I call B.S. on burns no oil at all comment. I run 6 quarts and add when down below that level. I have found that my/these engines DO use oil when running well. I add a quart on average every 6-10 hours. An engine uses "some" oil in a healthy state. Not excessive, but no oil at all?  Not in my experience...

[MyNameIsNobody]

What was $7 grand?  What was "done"?

[RobertGary1]

On 5/17/2017 at 1:48 PM, flyhigh603 said:

The reason I put $7,000 into a motor that has 2600 hrs is because it starts right up . Prop hasn't done a complete revolution and it's running, makes no metal at all in oil analysis, comps are all at 78 , uses / burns no oil at all. I think that's a great reason

 

Honestly have to question the mechanic who would agree to spend $7,000 of your money on an engine that will need an overhaul soon, believe it or not. These engines don't go forever.

I just installed a new Lycoming right from the factory. It burns oil as do 100% of piston airplane engines. Its a question of how much it burns. They're intentionally designed with lower tolerances than car engines which results in healthy oil burning. 

-Robert

[gsxrpilot]

29 minutes ago, RobertGary1 said:

Honestly have to question the mechanic who would agree to spend $7,000 of your money on an engine that will need an overhaul soon, believe it or not. These engines don't go forever.

I just installed a new Lycoming right from the factory. It burns oil as do 100% of piston airplane engines. Its a question of how much it burns. They're intentionally designed with lower tolerances than car engines which results in healthy oil burning. 

-Robert

You gotta read the whole thread.  The $7000 is the cost of the annual, not spent on the engine. And while that's a lot for an M20C, it's understandable for a plane with a lot of deferred maintenance.