takair Posted January 14, 2011 Report Posted January 14, 2011 I notice many of you are using IPads or concidering using them. The certification office at work sent this to me. Note that this is a report through the NASA reporting system, so the details are not verified or validated by FAA. I have not used the IPad so I can not speak to it. Just hate to see anybody busted for an airspace violation. I could not figure out how to attach the PDF, so I found a link: http://www.nafinet.org/APPLE_IPAD_USED_AS_AN_EFB.pdf Quote
flight2000 Posted January 14, 2011 Report Posted January 14, 2011 Thanks for the link. The first thing that caught my attention was the fact that the pilot used the iPad for PRIMARY navigation. In my mind, he would get what he deserves for violating the airspace (especially in the LAX area of all places). The iPad with 3G and built in GPS antenna does not have the accuracy of the external GPS antennae that are now available. The pilot was lulled into a false sense of security with the georeferenced charts and failed to maintain his location. I can't fault Apple for that because it was never intended for that purpose. It's a great reference tool, but should never be used for sole navigation purposes. Apple did not see the iPad as an aviation tool and did not adapt it to adhere with the stricter regulations for panel mounted GPS receivers or to even have it certified as an EFB. I still love the iPad and will use it for charts and approach plates, but not for navigation (except maybe in an emergency if all else fails). That is also why we cannot use handheld GPS receivers for IFR ops. The second issue is already being discussed. Most have not had failures due to heat, some have. Not sure on the third one, maybe just a head space and timing issue on the pilots part... Just my $.02.... Quote
carusoam Posted January 14, 2011 Report Posted January 14, 2011 Impressive link...The Nasa system is about collecting data from pilots who openly admit that they may have made a mistake. [1] Guy admits to using tool for primary navigation and recomends not using it for primary navigation. I disagree with his first intention, but fully agree with his recommendation. [2] Guy (electrical engineer) admits to leaving Ipad in direct sunshine. It shuts down quickly. Well, I guess we all know that now. [3] Guy misuses the system altogether and busts through controlled airspace. He did not program a waypoint to avoid the airspace that was obviously displayed on his IPad. I think it is best we keep sharing our own positive and negative experiences. The title of this thread probably makes it an ideal place to do so. If we experience real difficulties related to the hardware/software combination, it will be great to share. Best regards, -a- Quote
jelswick Posted January 14, 2011 Report Posted January 14, 2011 I've very sadly been without my Mooney for a little over a month now and will be picking it up from the avionics shop in KY next week with some wonderful new additions, but with the new iPad, this delay in use might have been for the better. I received the iPad for Christmas and put ForeFlight on it immediately (that was my primary want for it, anything work related that is a benefit is just icing for me). I've been test driving it in my car just to see how it behaves and I know driving from my house to the airport, it was a few miles off. I was disappointed at that. As soon as I got to the airport and turned it which changed it's orientation from landscape to portrait, it then apparently recalculated it's position and was spot on recognizing exactly where I was. I'm with Flight2000...It's a great tool for charts and secondary or emergency navigation source, but it needs to remain just that. I'll stick with Garmin 430 first and the iPad is a great chart reader and for navigation it's just great extra information, but not to be trusted as primary. Quote
jelswick Posted January 14, 2011 Report Posted January 14, 2011 I should note, that is no disappointment with the ForeFlight app. I'm very glad to have that and looks like a wonderful tool I can't wait to use. It's just that the gps that is native in the iPad is not aviation use grade and as Flight2000 indicated, it wasn't designed to be. Quote
carusoam Posted January 14, 2011 Report Posted January 14, 2011 Jelswick, How many lateral g(s) does it take for the Ipad to go from portrait to landscape? The switch on the side of the Ipad next to the volume buttons used to lock out the rotation. In the latest operating software upgrade, that switch was turned into a mute switch. I put some news videos on my ipad one day for a long commute to a distant office. I was interested in the sound portion of the podcast, but i noticed under the load caused by sharp turns, that the picture was rotating. If you get that much side load in the Mooney, you won't need the Ipad for a g meter.... best regards, -a- Quote
jelswick Posted January 14, 2011 Report Posted January 14, 2011 Amen Carusoam. I don't intend to find out. That was one thing I was thinking of was what would happen in a turn in an approach with it possibly changing orientation; assuming in the heat of things that might be a little disorienting or at least an issue you don't want to have to worry about. There's still some way to stop it from doing that, but I don't intend to be that dependent on it. I think the iPad is a great tool and glad to have it, but I don't see it replacing anything other than having paper charts in the plane and then only if I have a backup on the PC or an iphone or such in the plane with me. Quote
Piloto Posted January 14, 2011 Report Posted January 14, 2011 Well I don't think any of these IPads were inteded or tested for aviation use. Next time get something that is intended for aviation. José Quote
KLRDMD Posted January 14, 2011 Report Posted January 14, 2011 Quote: jelswick I received the iPad for Christmas and put ForeFlight on it immediately (that was my primary want for it, anything work related that is a benefit is just icing for me). I've been test driving it in my car just to see how it behaves and I know driving from my house to the airport, it was a few miles off. I was disappointed at that. Quote
KLRDMD Posted January 14, 2011 Report Posted January 14, 2011 Quote: carusoam The switch on the side of the Ipad next to the volume buttons used to lock out the rotation. In the latest operating software upgrade, that switch was turned into a mute switch. Quote
eldeano Posted January 17, 2011 Report Posted January 17, 2011 Alright, I love my ipad, but using it as primary navigation tool anywhere, much less in the LA area is crazy. With or without an external GPS using it for precise anything just is not a good idea. It has been good for getting en route weather, flight planning, approach plates (with printed backup) and having a nice big moving map much larger then my aera. Quote
Earl Posted January 17, 2011 Report Posted January 17, 2011 I would echo what several others have said about using the ipad for primary navigation, not a good idea or likely even legal. I have a Garmin 430 and a yoke mounted 696 and they are almost always agree completely on speed and location. I also have a RAM mount for my ipad and have had the moving map up while I am flying but never checked it against the other two. I just had the moving map up out of curiosity more than anything else. Next time I fly I am going to check it out a little better to see if there is a problem. Quote
danb35 Posted January 17, 2011 Report Posted January 17, 2011 Quote: ehscott I would echo what several others have said about using the ipad for primary navigation, not a good idea or likely even legal. Quote
peter Posted January 17, 2011 Report Posted January 17, 2011 I have a question for all you iPad users: Where do you put the thing? I've tried using an iPad a couple of times now and can't really make it fit. This is using a RAM yoke mount iPad clamp. For instrument work a paper chart on a yoke clip still seems to work best for me. I really like the utility offered by the iPad as an electronic chart case, but I keep getting stuck on where to put it. Suggestions? Quote
KLRDMD Posted January 17, 2011 Report Posted January 17, 2011 Quote: peter I have a question for all you iPad users: Where do you put the thing? Quote
eldeano Posted January 17, 2011 Report Posted January 17, 2011 Quote: peter I have a question for all you iPad users: Where do you put the thing? I've tried using an iPad a couple of times now and can't really make it fit. This is using a RAM yoke mount iPad clamp. For instrument work a paper chart on a yoke clip still seems to work best for me. I really like the utility offered by the iPad as an electronic chart case, but I keep getting stuck on where to put it. Suggestions? Quote
Jeff_S Posted January 18, 2011 Report Posted January 18, 2011 Mine sits on the lap of the co-pilot, or the empty seat if I'm alone. Quote
ELT Posted January 19, 2011 Report Posted January 19, 2011 Peter, You might check my post on how to "mount" a Mooney. Eddie Quote
leesh Posted January 19, 2011 Report Posted January 19, 2011 Quote: jelswick I've been test driving it in my car just to see how it behaves and I know driving from my house to the airport, it was a few miles off. I was disappointed at that. As soon as I got to the airport and turned it which changed it's orientation from landscape to portrait, it then apparently recalculated it's position and was spot on recognizing exactly where I was. If you're using the gps in the 3G iPad, that GPS is supposedly less accurate than most consumer GPS units. I bought the Bad Elf external GPS that ForeFlight recommends for my non 3G (wifi-only) iPad, and that is supposed to be more accurate. I haven't tested it for accuracy. In general, any handheld non-aviation approved GPS is bound to be unfit for primary Nav in a plane. However, it's comforting to have the iPad and iPhone with Foreflight for planning and as a backup to my 430. Alisha Quote
201guy Posted February 1, 2011 Report Posted February 1, 2011 Quote: takair I notice many of you are using IPads or concidering using them. The certification office at work sent this to me. Note that this is a report through the NASA reporting system, so the details are not verified or validated by FAA. I have not used the IPad so I can not speak to it. Just hate to see anybody busted for an airspace violation. I could not figure out how to attach the PDF, so I found a link: http://www.nafinet.org/APPLE_IPAD_USED_AS_AN_EFB.pdf Quote
231Pilot Posted February 1, 2011 Report Posted February 1, 2011 I use an iPad, bu NEVER as primary nav. I use it for an electronic airport directory, for terminal procedures, secondary back up moving map and when on the ground weather and flight plan tool. If I want a primary moving map (and I do) I use my 430 moving map displayed on the MX20, with the database updated every cycle, and a 495 mounted on the passenger yoke as primary back up moving map and storage for flight plans. For inflight weather I have a WSI unit that displays on the MX20. The iPad is a great tool, and a space saver, but it is not now, nor has it ever been a primary navigation instrument. Just sayin'. Quote
FullyArticulate Posted February 1, 2011 Report Posted February 1, 2011 Quote: KLRDMD Please tell me how the WAAS GPS feeding my iPad has absolutely no accuracy. Also please explain how it is less accurate than the WAAS GPS in my panel. Quote
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