Bladder Tank 10 Gallon Add-On

[flyer7324]

I had O and N install the 54.8 bladder mod in my C model in 2000. Have had no problems since. My mission is primarily KHVN to KAPF and back approx 6 times a year....mostly in the winter months.

I've thought about upgrading to a newer model....perhaps a 201/231/Eagle/Ovation but at age 63 I just don't think it's worth it. Instead I've spent more money than I want to think about adding a GTN650, GNC255A, GTX345 and GMA350C. Early on in or around 2000 I had an STEC 30 installed and add a DAC 31 for GPSS when I had the 650 installed. Very happy with the setup and it works great.

Anyway, I've decided to add the 10 gallon bladder add-on to raise my fuel capacity to 64 gallons. I've decided on this for a variety of reasons. Usually I make only one fuel stop on the 1030nm trip that is KAPF KIZER SGJ STARY CHS then usually KCPC KEYF OR KHRJ for fuel, CCV SIE KPK KHVN. Several times during IMC I had to eat in to my reserves to make my fuel stop at say KHRJ when if I could've continued for another hour VFR conditions would have prevailed. In my view those extra 10 gallons would make a huge difference in that scenario. I've also flown into the Bahamas and would like to make the Virgin Islands a future stop. So again 64 gallons would be a plus.

I'd like to hear from list members regarding the following:

1. I know that even with the add-on non stop to KHVN would probably not be feasible except with a good tailwind. If anyone has suggestions in this regard I'd like to hear from you.

2. With the new setup what advice could you give on routing from KAPF to the Virgin Islands.

I've really got the airplane where I want it to be and I know there will be naysayers that will suggest a 201 or Eagle/Ovation might have been a better choice. I also know that folks will say "you'll never get your money back when you sell". I understand that and to me that's not a issue since I'll fly off the cost of the upgrades over the next 10-12 years in added utility, convenience and reliability. However I'd really like to hear from list members with specific advice especially if there are any of you who have purchased the 64 gallon bladder mod.

Side note: O and N is out of business. The STC's for the bladders has been purchased by Griggs Aircraft located at 76N which is a short distance from Seaman's Airport where O and N was located. One of the Griggs brothers worked for O and N and has about 200 installations under his belt. So no concerns there about expertise.

Thanks for you help and advice.

[1964-M20E]

OK news that O&N is out of business!  I guess that is why about a year and half ago when I was investigation the same issue they never answered me.

Sounds like you have your C where you want it and if it perform the mission as is get the added 10 gallons it is cheaper than another plane and the unknown issues.

Fuel management is an issue I have an F model with the 54.8 bladders.  I can get 6 hours of total flying time (5 with reserve) out of my F and there is one trip I make about 2 times a year that this becomes an issue.  So essentially anything that plans out to be more than 4.5 hours I begin to look for fuel stops if I am expecting to do and approach in IMC.

[211º]

I think with any of our planes we always want "just one more hour of fuel". It was that way when I had the 150 and I am now seeing that it is becoming that way with the E -- even though the E has about double the fuel duration.

Having said that, I am indeed watching this thread for comments from others regarding the larger bladder.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[M20F]

Personally I would take bladders out and go with Monroy long range ranks.  Better on the weight, you can never have enough gas, etc.  My opinion. 

[kris_adams]

they were talking about the move when I was up there last October so this isn't a big surprise.  Sounds like the xtra 10 gallons would make a difference.  Since you've already invested in bladders, I'd just add the 10 gallons and be done with it.  I can't be of any help on routing.  Maybe someday!

[Marauder]

Just to clarify the O&N situation. They did not go out of business. They sold their business to their employees. This happened a few months back.

"Under the direction of Matt Griggs, Chris Murley and Jeff Ball the currently established repair station facility Griggs Aircraft Refinishing has purchased the Supplement Type Certificates from O & N. They will be continuing to produce the Silver Eagle 210 Conversions, the auxiliary fuel tanks, and Mooney bladder kits. They can be reached at (570) 836-5757 or at www.griggsaircraft.com"

I called looking for a price on the 10 gallon update and received a call back indicating they were under new management but still in the business of providing bladders and upgrades.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Oliver]

2 hours ago, Marauder said:

I called looking for a price on the 10 gallon update and received a call back indicating they were under new management but still in the business of providing bladders and upgrades.

Would you mind sharing the price?

Edited July 28, 2016 by Oliver

[Marauder]

2 hours ago, Marauder said: I called looking for a price on the 10 gallon update and received a call back indicating they were under new management but still in the business of providing bladders and upgrades.

Would you mind sharing the price?

When I called them (Grigg's http://www.griggsaircraft.com/home) they told me they were using the O & N price lists. I'm not sure if these prices are still the same over the past few months.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Oliver]

@Marauder Thank you. I couldn't find anything on O&N's website, other than the reference to Grigg's,

I will send them an e-mail. Our plane already has the 54 gal. bladders. If the price for the 10 gal. upgrade is reasonable, I might be interested.  

[mike_elliott]

9 hours ago, M20F said:

Personally I would take bladders out and go with Monroy long range ranks.  Better on the weight, you can never have enough gas, etc.  My opinion. 

no can do, it is a one way mod once you go bladders

[mike_elliott]

13 hours ago, flyer7324 said:

2. With the new setup what advice could you give on routing from KAPF to the Virgin Islands

Deb might be able to comment on this, they have made the trip from KFXE to BVI a few times.

[flyer7324]

The price is 4700.00 installed with 5 year warranty. No sales tax in PA on aviation. I should've done it a couple of years ago. Price was 3800.00 then. And the current price is the same as O and N was charging before the businesses split.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Oliver]

34 minutes ago, flyer7324 said:

The price is 4700.00 installed with 5 year warranty.

Thank you. Do you know if the wings will have to be (partially) disassembled, in order to install the extended tanks or do they go in through existing openings?

[flyer7324]

As I understand it the answer is no. What they do is create another access panel in the top of each wing in the bay adjacent to the outermost bay that contains one of the existing bladders through which they insert the 5 gallon bladder. So they just add another oval access panel in each wing.

[ArtVandelay]

9 hours ago, M20F said: Personally I would take bladders out and go with Monroy long range ranks.  Better on the weight, you can never have enough gas, etc.  My opinion. 

no can do, it is a one way mod once you go bladders

And in 1000 words or less, why is that?

[flyer7324]

And in addition I think the Flightstream 510 (around1500.00) is in my future. No installation costs. Just insert the SD card in the slot in the front of the 650/750.

[flyer7324]

To eliminate any confusion O and N IS out of business. Myron Olson and his wife have retired. The business was split up with some of the existing employees purchasing the repair station and Griggs purchasing the STC's.

[mike_elliott]

9 hours ago, M20F said: Personally I would take bladders out and go with Monroy long range ranks.  Better on the weight, you can never have enough gas, etc.  My opinion. 

no can do, it is a one way mod once you go bladders

And in 1000 words or less, why is that?

Because Bruce Jaeger and Paul Beck said so

[mike_elliott]

Just now, mike_elliott said: Because Bruce Jaeger and Paul Beck said so

But the better question is, why would you want to?

Jim

Long range tanks was the reason Bruce told me a few asked about doing just that.

[flyer7324]

bluehighwayflyer....it appears you own a 201. Am I correct? Can you give me your power settings to achieve the 1100nm range?

Thanks....!!!

[Piloto]

Large and small airframe manufacturers no longer use bladders. The support logistics is complex and more expensive when compared with integral tanks. A B707 requires multiple different bladders. So the MRO needs to stock all of them because of the unknown of which one will fail. But the ones for B707 are not the same for other models. With integral tanks the MRO just need to stock a couple of sealant cans for all the models in the fleet.  

The integral tank sealant sandwich at assembly is more durable and reliable than bladders. But unfortunately Mooney didn't used this assembly process until the later models. 

José 

[flyer7324]

bluehighwayflyer....it appears you own a 201. Am I correct? Can you give me your power settings to achieve the 1100nm range?

Thanks....!!!

[flyer7324]

Sorry C model here. But I usually fly above 8000 so I can get fuel flow down. (JPI 700 on board). Please provide me with your power settings/altitude.

[Bart Chilcott]

I have a 65 E with  the O&N 10 gallon add-on bladders (64 gallon total).  I love the bladders and extra 10 gallons.  I've flown her on long distance cross country missions and love the greater range. Just my two cents.

 

[ArtVandelay]

bluehighwayflyer....it appears you own a 201. Am I correct? Can you give me your power settings to achieve the 1100nm range?

Thanks....!!!

Try 8000-9000', 2200 RPM, FT, LOP...if you are at full gross, drop RPM down to 2000.