A fair sized smidgin of bad luck

[mooniac15u]

8 minutes ago, Yetti said:

My problem with the Laser ones are twofold.  You are balancing the plane on the point.  I have had way too many jacks slip out from under cars and trucks and tractors because they were balanced on a point.  The other is the edge of the LASAR tie down will cut a rope in a storm.   Growing up sailing, I have seen what wave and wind action will do to a rope. Even with mine that have a thicker tie down surface I carry caribiners so the rope has a round surface to work with.

I've had the LASAR tie downs on both my Mooneys. I've never seen it even start to fray the outer part of the rope. It would take years for them to cut through a rope. These are not boats with constant movement from waves. 

If your jack has a flat top then I guess you are balancing on a point. The jacks I use have a cup on the top that the LASAR jack points fit into. There isn't really any way for them to slip out. 

[Yetti]

You have not seen the ropes at the airports around here.  I am pretty good at rigging stuff, my dad is better stuff still gets dropped because gravity always wins.

[mooniac15u]

5 minutes ago, Yetti said:

You have not seen the ropes at the airports around here.  I am pretty good at rigging stuff, my dad is better stuff still gets dropped because gravity always wins.

You're right, gravity does win. In this case it holds the jack point securely in the cup. 

Have you ever actually used a LASAR jack point or are you just speculating? I'm pretty sure the folks at LASAR who designed these have jacked a Mooney or two.

[Hank]

3 minutes ago, mooniac15u said:

You're right, gravity does win. In this case it holds the jack point securely in the cup. 

Have you ever actually used a LASAR jack point or are you just speculating? I'm pretty sure the folks at LASAR who designed these have jacked a Mooney or two.

I'm sure the jack point is fine. It's the tie down part I don't like--you know, where the rope goes through when you're traveling. 

[cnoe]

My problem with the Laser ones are twofold.  You are balancing the plane on the point.  I have had way too many jacks slip out from under cars and trucks and tractors because they were balanced on a point.  The other is the edge of the LASAR tie down will cut a rope in a storm.   Growing up sailing, I have seen what wave and wind action will do to a rope. Even with mine that have a thicker tie down surface I carry caribiners so the rope has a round surface to work with.

I keep a couple of quick-links with my tie-down ropes to prevent any issues with rope wear using the Lasar tie-downs. Cheap and easy.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[gsxrpilot]

While we're debating who takes better care of their Mooney ;-) ...

If I'm traveling and parking out on a ramp overnight, where I know I'll have to tie-down, I carry my own straps. There are plenty of little airports that don't supply ropes or chains at the tie-down points.

These straps work great and have the clips on the hooks to make sure they don't come un-hooked. They also work great with my LASAR jack-points.

[jetdriven]

2 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

While we're debating who takes better care of their Mooney ;-) ...

If I'm traveling and parking out on a ramp overnight, where I know I'll have to tie-down, I carry my own straps. There are plenty of little airports that don't supply ropes or chains at the tie-down points.

These straps work great and have the clips on the hooks to make sure they don't come un-hooked. They also work great with my LASAR jack-points.

I couldn't bother tying it down with those. At 500lb breaking strength any wind over about 40 mph can break them with the lift kf the wing.  Get you some amsteel. It looks like 3/8 ski rope but has a 10K lb breaking strength. 

[kerry]

3 hours ago, M20Doc said:

Elevating on a saw horse is in the manual..................for the Mite, it weighs 500 lbs.  

Jack points are only needed to raise the entire plane for gear swings not to change the tire, at least 2 alternatives have been suggested, if people cared to read all of the posts.

Clarence

M20A is a little lighter than a M20C.  I would imagine if you placed the saw horse under the jack point there would be no issues.

[Hank]

3 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

While we're debating who takes better care of their Mooney ;-) ...

If I'm traveling and parking out on a ramp overnight, where I know I'll have to tie-down, I carry my own straps. There are plenty of little airports that don't supply ropes or chains at the tie-down points.

These straps work great and have the clips on the hooks to make sure they don't come un-hooked. They also work great with my LASAR jack-points.

Those are heavy, bulky to pack around, and frequently tangle themselves up. I bought some ½" rope, put an eye splice in one end. Push the eye through the ring in the ground and run the free end up to the tie down ring. When I'm done, I wrap them up and put em in a stuff bag on the hat rack. Both together weigh much less than one ratchet strap, and are a third the trouble.

[Bennett]

3 hours ago, gsxrpilot said: While we're debating who takes better care of their Mooney ;-) ...

If I'm traveling and parking out on a ramp overnight, where I know I'll have to tie-down, I carry my own straps. There are plenty of little airports that don't supply ropes or chains at the tie-down points.

These straps work great and have the clips on the hooks to make sure they don't come un-hooked. They also work great with my LASAR jack-points.

Those are heavy, bulky to pack around, and frequently tangle themselves up. I bought some ½" rope, put an eye splice in one end. Push the eye through the ring in the ground and run the free end up to the tie down ring. When I'm done, I wrap them up and put em in a stuff bag on the hat rack. Both together weigh much less than one ratchet strap, and are a third the trouble.

------------------------------------------------ As quoted above (Don't know why the quote feature didn't work this time). You can buy pre-spliced "mooring" lines at marine chandlery stores such as West Marine. They come in various lengths, rope diameters, and materials. I prefer 7/16" high strength braided lines. I keep three of them in a small bag in the baggage compartment for traveling. As said above, they are light and take up little room. All sorts of other uses in an emergency/survival situation

[bonal]

That's the fun part of this place we can get into a debate about everything

[mike_elliott]

7 hours ago, Hank said:

I'm sure the jack point is fine. It's the tie down part I don't like--you know, where the rope goes through when you're traveling. 

Hank, I have a set of aluminum D rings I clip onto the Lasar jack/tiedown points and then tie the ropes to them. Works better than factory rings, and super when the tie down ropes are chains. Stronger than you will ever need. I stow them in the baggage compartment when not in use. Simple, cheap.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Hank said:

Those are heavy, bulky to pack around, and frequently tangle themselves up. I bought some ½" rope, put an eye splice in one end. Push the eye through the ring in the ground and run the free end up to the tie down ring. When I'm done, I wrap them up and put em in a stuff bag on the hat rack. Both together weigh much less than one ratchet strap, and are a third the trouble.

You must have attended Boy Scouts and learned to tie a bowline.

Clarence

[Hank]

51 minutes ago, M20Doc said:

You must have attended Boy Scouts and learned to tie a bowline.

Clarence

Yep, Boy Scout for sure. But eye splices are fairly easy and only need to be tied once. I've converted from a taut line hitch to the "traditional" tie down format in the wings, though (loop it around and pull it tight).

[Yetti]

I have a set of saw horses in the hanger for safety.  When the plane is jacked up they go under the wings.  Don't want to get squashed by a wing.

[cliffy]

Saw horses for secondary safety fine. Saw horses for primary support? 

You may find that the CG is far enough fore or aft of the tiedown point (main spar) that the airplane 

will rotate fore or aft beyond the spar line and dent the wing skin. I'll guarantee that if you try to jack the 

entire airplane at one time with saw horses you'll wind up off of the spar line. 

Give it some thought and be careful if you do. 

BTW, down under in Australia, it is against the regulations for anyone (owners included) to jack all 3 wheels off of the ground on any airplane unless one is a licensed aircraft engineer!

[Yetti]

They are in addition to the jacks.  When I jacked the plane I put about 60 lbs in the baggage compartment and 4 - 80lbs of sackcrete holding the tail down  Very little to no unplanned rotation.  lots of thought to keeping things under control...

 

As for changing tires, I have done about 8 in the last couple of weeks.  5 four wheeler tires which are a pain to seat and 2 bike tires and trailer tire.  The HF manual tire changer has gotten a work out.

Edited July 7, 2016 by Yetti

[steingar]

Good news is I got jack caps on the way.  Hopefully I can get this all patched up next week in time for the Show.  I will just never forget the mechanic telling me he couldn't jack up a Mooney.

Really dumb thing too.  The stupid jacks are only 25 bucks.  Were I a mechanic I'd just buy the things (or kluge something like some of you guys) just so I wouldn't have to say that to a customer.  You really think I'm going to use this guy if I don't have to?

[carusoam]

Starting to sense why people like their MSCs or Mooney specific mechanic?

and why people carry the basic tools to do some or a lot of basic part swapping.

Best regards,

-a-

[Guest]

I think you're going about this all wrong.  Why not approach him and say "if you're willing to buy some basic support equipment for a Mooney I'll support your business with my annuals etc"

 

Clarence

[mooniac15u]

4 hours ago, M20Doc said:

I think you're going about this all wrong.  Why not approach him and say "if you're willing to buy some basic support equipment for a Mooney I'll support your business with my annuals etc"

 

Clarence

This particular FBO has essentially lost interest in supporting piston aviation. They recently shut down their flight school and sold all their rental aircraft. They are down to one A&P who is focused on their jets. He is a nice guy and a good mechanic but you have to plan on at least 2 months for an annual because the jets always get priority over your plane. 

[steingar]

14 hours ago, mooniac15u said:

This particular FBO has essentially lost interest in supporting piston aviation. They recently shut down their flight school and sold all their rental aircraft. They are down to one A&P who is focused on their jets. He is a nice guy and a good mechanic but you have to plan on at least 2 months for an annual because the jets always get priority over your plane. 

And he rarely if ever answers his phone or returns messages.  It's a bad situation, and if it gets much worse I'll be relocating my aircraft.  

[cliffy]

YETTI- Just trying to get my head around what I think  I'm reading. 

The plane is on jacks at the jacking points and the tail is on the ground with the gear (all wheels) in the air? The tail is being held down with weight in the baggage area and 320 lbs of rocks on the stabilizer? 

Or, are you saying, that the 320 lbs is suspended from the tail ring holding the tail down to something other than the tail ring on the ground?  Like close to a level attitude?

It may just be me being confused 

[Hank]

29 minutes ago, cliffy said:

YETTI- Just trying to get my head around what I think  I'm reading. 

The plane is on jacks at the jacking points and the tail is on the ground with the gear (all wheels) in the air? The tail is being held down with weight in the baggage area and 320 lbs of rocks on the stabilizer? 

Or, are you saying, that the 320 lbs is suspended from the tail ring holding the tail down to something other than the tail ring on the ground?  Like close to a level attitude?

It may just be me being confused 

I've done both. Used a washtub full of cement tied to the tail tie down for years, then I moved. Don't know how it was done last year, it was an hour's drive to the shop. This year I hired an independent A&P who came to my hangar, but he left his weights at home. I stacked two cases of oil on the tail, one on each elevator. Then added water bottles, a jug of used oil and a huge stack of old approach plates, logbooks, a roll of large wrenches, everything I had laying around. When we raised the gear, it was too much and I had to remove some of it, a little at a time on both sides. All I can say is that it worked.

[Yetti]

Ha ha I am way to lazy to lift 80lbs up that high.  I thought I had a picture.    4 foot 2" square steel tubing on the floor.  1" tubular nylon webbing with like a 6000lb breaking strength around steel tube..  Plywood across the steel tubing so it won't pull through the bag of saccrete.  2 bags on either side of the tubular webbing. Steel caribener through webbing to tie down ring.  Double sheets bend to tie the tubular webbing in a loop. Makes it easily adjustable.  Plane still had great forward stability even when using putting my 250lbs on the step to get on the wing.  Just like when it is on the ground.