PIREP on this 1992 MOONEY M20J MSE - N9139Z

[thomas1142]

Still looking for that "perfect" airplane and ran across this one. Turbo normalized and TKS. For those that have a turbo normalized, what exactly does that mean in terms of operation workload and maintenance? The useful load is kind of low, would this airplane be eligible for a gross weight "upgrade". Thanks to all for sharing your knowledge and help, definitely the most valuable tool in the process of buying an airplane.

http://jacksaircraft.com/aircraft/index.php/aircrafts/277

[capthaak]

Looking like it has the higher gross weight already. You're right, the empty weight is high. Adding the TKS is probably the culprit.

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[kris_adams]

TKS and turbo normalized--nice features!  I'm in the Atlanta area and happy to help if there is anything I can do for you let me know.

[kris_adams]

I wonder if the 882 includes all the TKS fluid?  If so you can probably get by pretty easily depending on the weight of your passengers.  My standard loading is 3 people in my J and I get by just fine.  I have around 940UL after putting in bladders last year.  I could easily offload 100-150 pounds of fuel on my normal flights if needed.

[carusoam]

TN'd is a way to add a compressor to a normally aspirated engine.

This is a nice way of getting more power at higher altitudes.  

The cost, depending on how you use it or not.  Higher cylinder wear and higher cylinder temperatures are possible from burning more fuel in less time.

Our resident TN J & F guys really like theirs.

Overall, it is a well engineered system for people that want the improved performance without having to go to a full TC'd system.

TN has taken on a lot of respect as IO550s are using TN systems in place of TCs.  Compression ratios are lower in TC'd engines.

What is probably missing in aftermarket TN systems is pressure controllers and after coolers.  Nice devices to have.  More responsibility for the PIC if you don't have.

Added ownership costs, maintenance, and PIC responsibility are the costs.  Climb and speed performance are the benefits. Cost per flight hour are obviously different as the FF increases with speed.

PPI should include a visual inspection of the turbine parts and cleanliness of the oil lines....

PP thoughts, I am not a mechanic...

Best regards,

-a-

[ArtVandelay]

What's the pros and cons of a TN J vs 231?

[carusoam]

Cruise altitudes available...

If you like cruising in the FLs.  The 252 is most refined.....

- TC

- intercooler

- pressure controller

- PIC knowledge increases to meet the higher requirements to operate in the higher environment.

- engine ops

- O2 requirements 

- weather

 

Wait for M20KTurbo to chime in.  He has the first hand M20J/TN...  Doc John has the TN-F...

 

Best regards,

-a-

[kevinw]

On 6/21/2016 at 9:26 AM, Kris_Adams said:

I wonder if the 882 includes all the TKS fluid?  If so you can probably get by pretty easily depending on the weight of your passengers.  My standard loading is 3 people in my J and I get by just fine.  I have around 940UL after putting in bladders last year.  I could easily offload 100-150 pounds of fuel on my normal flights if needed.

I have TKS (inadvertant) in my J and the UL does not include fluid. The system weights around 45 lbs and the fluid comes in at 9.2 lbs per gallon with a 6 gallon capacity. After avionics upgrades, removal of the vacuum system and adding LED lighting I was able to add 30 lbs of UL bringing it up to 900. As we all know, TKS is very valuable in the winter months and if you fly in that climate it's probably worth it. If not, I'd probably keep looking. One more thing, TKS will cost you 4-7 knots in cruise. The best true airspeed I can get is 154. For me here in Iowa it's well worth the sacrifice.

[Mcstealth]

On ‎6‎/‎21‎/‎2016 at 0:01 AM, thomas1142 said:

Still looking for that "perfect" airplane and ran across this one. Turbo normalized and TKS. For those that have a turbo normalized, what exactly does that mean in terms of operation workload and maintenance? The useful load is kind of low, would this airplane be eligible for a gross weight "upgrade". Thanks to all for sharing your knowledge and help, definitely the most valuable tool in the process of buying an airplane.

http://jacksaircraft.com/aircraft/index.php/aircrafts/277

Very nice J.

Some things to consider: The STC owner for the TN has passed away, and no one has subsequently bought the STC. Parts need to be sourced on your own if the need ever develops and your AP would need to be competent, obviously.

The UL is not the best, but not bad either. The 252 series has a UL 'around' those numbers. Lots of pilots made them work and loved that plane.

I don't believe you can go as high in a J compared to a K. I think the 252 was 28,000 or something like that.

 

[toto]

Price reduced by 80 grand?

1992 MOONEY M20J MSE  $84,500  AVAILABLE FOR SALE  1992 MOONEY M20J MSE King KMA 24 Audio panel Garmin GNS 530 Nav/Comm/GPS WAAS Garmin GNS 430 Nav/Comm/GPS WAAS King KAP 150 Autopilot w/Flight Director King KI 525 HSI Garmin GTX 330 Transponder with traffic (TIS) King KN 64 DME King KR 87 ADF w/King KI-227 WX-500 Strikefinder. Displayed in Garmin 530 JPI-700 ELT Kannand 406 AF-Compact M20 Turbo Normalizer Speed brakes TKS - Deice CD player Oil separator  View Details at Barnstormers.Com

[ArtVandelay]

Price reduced by 80 grand?
1992 MOONEY M20J MSE  $84,500  AVAILABLE FOR SALE  1992 MOONEY M20J MSE King KMA 24 Audio panel Garmin GNS 530 Nav/Comm/GPS WAAS Garmin GNS 430 Nav/Comm/GPS WAAS King KAP 150 Autopilot w/Flight Director King KI 525 HSI Garmin GTX 330 Transponder with traffic (TIS) King KN 64 DME King KR 87 ADF w/King KI-227 WX-500 Strikefinder. Displayed in Garmin 530 JPI-700 ELT Kannand 406 AF-Compact M20 Turbo Normalizer Speed brakes TKS - Deice CD player Oil separator  View Details at Barnstormers.Com

Wow, that seems like a steal, no mention of engine hours unless I missed it?

[toto]

It's still on TAP for $164,900, so this may be either a typo or a scam.  That price is consistent with the ad on Jack's Aircraft (and the TAP ad links to Jack's).

The TAP ad indicates 566 SMOH, also consistent with the Jack's ad.

 

 

[thomas1142]

This is a scam. This is the second time that this aircraft has been scammed. Last time it was up for sale at Jack's aircraft. N9139Z is now advertised by All Americal Aircraft, and definitely not for 85K, more like 160K.

[toto]

I emailed Jack's to let them know.  And I reported it as suspicious on Barnstormers.

Well, it was fun while it lasted

[toto]

And yes, to close the loop on AAA, this aircraft is listed there for $165k.

[thomas1142]

So, both Jacks and AAA is selling this airplane, is that not a bit odd?

[DVA]

On 6/22/2016 at 4:02 PM, kevinw said:

One more thing, TKS will cost you 4-7 knots in cruise.

If TKS costs you 4-7 knots, be happy. Most owners I’ve spoken to (me included) report a 10 knot decrease with the system installed. That said, mine is FIKI and although I never put myself into situations where I would be purposely cruising in known ice, up here in the Northeast its very convenient when you need to get up or down through a cloud short deck, which happens a lot. 

[toto]

So, both Jacks and AAA is selling this airplane, is that not a bit odd?

It does seem odd. The AAA ad shows about +50 engine hours, so it's possible that the owner has moved it to Texas.

Flightaware suggests it was heading in that direction a couple weeks ago.