Letter height for paint

[bradp]

For those that have repainted, ever notice that the late 70s era Mooneys have 10 in lettering?  Paint shop manger pointed it out and asked me if I wanted it the same or 12".  Said all the Moonies cheat a bit on the reg.  Any benefit to upsizing other than I'd be actually legal if I took the plane to Mexico or the Carribbean?  

[Hank]

I think you're probably legal to use 2" lettering if you want.

[co2bruce]

It's been a long time but I think you only need 12" lettering for international flights

[mooniac15u]

17 minutes ago, Hank said:

I think you're probably legal to use 2" lettering if you want.

This came up on another thread with a claim that it was ok on older planes. The only provision I could find was for antique planes for exhibition purposes. I understand that the smaller numbers are fine until you repaint but could someone point to the reg that allows smaller numbers after repainting?

[carusoam]

Look for some stylish ways reg numbers are being painted lately.  More like art than vinyl stick on numbers.

might be able to see some at the web site of the scheme designers.

Best regards,

-a-

[RLCarter]

45.29 of the FAR's sets the pace for the registration marking size, once the aircraft is repainted it must have 12" markings. Mexico would not be the place to argue 10" vs 12", they require 12" markings as does ADIZ or DEWIZ here in the U.S.

[Hank]

It's right here in 45.22; feel free to read it all, I skipped a lot in this cut and paste, then highlighted the pertinent parts:

§45.22  Exhibition, antique, and other aircraft: Special rules.

(b) A small U.S.-registered aircraft built at least 30 years ago or a U.S.-registered aircraft for which an experimental certificate has been issued under §21.191(d) or 21.191(g) for operation as an exhibition aircraft or as an amateur-built aircraft and which has the same external configuration as an aircraft built at least 30 years ago may be operated without displaying marks in accordance with §§45.21 and 45.23 through 45.33 if:

(1) It displays in accordance with §45.21(c) marks at least 2 inches high on each side of the fuselage or vertical tail surface consisting of the Roman capital letter “N” followed by:

(i) The U.S. registration number of the aircraft; or

So there's more to it than meets the eye at first glance. If your plane is 30 years old, and US-registered, you have a choice of registration lettering size. Don't think this section applies? Check this out (again, elides and highlighted by me for this discussion):

§45.29   Size of marks.
(a) Except as provided in paragraph (f) of this section, each operator of an aircraft must display marks on the aircraft meeting the size requirements of this section.

(b) Height. Except as provided in paragraph (h) of this part, the nationality and registration marks must be of equal height and on—

(1) Fixed-wing aircraft, must be at least 12 inches high, except that:

(i) An aircraft displaying marks at least 2 inches high before November 1, 1981 and an aircraft manufactured after November 2, 1981, but before January 1, 1983, may display those marks until the aircraft is repainted or the marks are repainted, restored, or changed;

(ii) Marks at least 3 inches high may be displayed on a glider;

(iii) Marks at least 3 inches high may be displayed on an aircraft for which the FAA has issued an experimental certificate under §21.191 (d), §21.191 (g), or §21.191 (i) of this chapter to operate as an exhibition aircraft, an amateur-built aircraft, or a light-sport aircraft when the maximum cruising speed of the aircraft does not exceed 180 knots CAS; and

(iv) Marks may be displayed on an exhibition, antique, or other aircraft in accordance with §45.22.

So those of us with Mooneys that are at least 30 years old have a choice of registration number size. There is no choice if you want to fly your plane outside of the US, or even into the ADIZ along the borders--gotta be 12" tall, but nothing says those big 12" numbers have to be permanent. Paint 'em small, tape or vinyl if you want to fly elsewhere, remove 'em when you get home; or paint 'em big anyway. But it's your choice . . .

[RLCarter]

§45.29   Size of marks.
(a) Except as provided in paragraph (f) of this section, each operator of an aircraft must display marks on the aircraft meeting the size requirements of this section.

(1) Fixed-wing aircraft, must be at least 12 inches high, except that:

(i) An aircraft displaying marks at least 2 inches high before November 1, 1981 and an aircraft manufactured after November 2, 1981, but before January 1, 1983, may display those marks until the aircraft is repainted or the marks are repainted, restored, or changed;

 

Not wanting to start an argument but the way I read it, is that it is fine for 2" numbers IF they were there before 11-1-1981 and you don't repaint or am I reading it wrong?

[Hank]

No, §45.29 says planes built before 1981 could keep their existing small numbers until the next repaint.

BUT §45.22 says planes at least 30 years old can ignore §45.21 and §45.23-33, which includes §45.29. 

AND §45.29(iv) says that antique planes use §45.22, and then §45.22 defines antique as "at least 30 years old." So bid adieu to the Vintage Mooney Club, and say Hello to the Antique Mooney Club! 

if your plane is at least 30 years old, you can choose your letter size. As long as they are at least 2" high, you're good. Try 4-3/8" to drive people crazy!

[Raptor05121]

IMHO, the 12" numbers look good- most paint shops can do some styling to have it blend well with the paint.

[Bennett]

My 261 conversion had 2" numbers which looked great, but I started flying internationally fairly regularly, and 12" numbers are the rule. I had the "bright idea" of having a set of "removable" vinyl 12" numbers made up that I could keep in the airplane for these flights. The first time I tried this idea I flew to the Cayman Islands, and for reasons that escape at this time I left the US without putting on the 12" number set. The Cayman officials didn't seem to care, but I didn't want to hassle with Customs or the FAA returning to the US. I unrolled the set of 12" numbers and a set them in place. When I landed back in the US- Key West, the nice Customs lady came out to the Customs box (I was still in the airplane), and ripped into me for not having 12" numbers. Huh! I got out of the airplane, explained that I had adhered 12" numbers before I left the Caymans. We then found parts of numbers sticking to the horizontal stabilizer, a few pieces on the fuselage, and one partial number in one side of the rudder. She was nice about it as it was obvious that I had tried to comply with the rule, and that "I had 5 minutes to get 12" inch numbers on the airplane". I had a roll of blue masking tape in my tool kit, and I made the worst (from

an artistic standpoint) set of "12" numbers ever seen. That satisfied her, and when I got back I had a paint shop paint legal numbers on the airplane. Moral of the story: Removable numbers are not a great idea in fast airplanes.

I never saw anyone actually measure the 12" numbers on my various airplanes, and in fact I had 10" numbers painted on my DOVA, as 12" numbers were just too big for that airplane. The paint shop was not happy, but I said I would take responsibility for any regulatory hassle that the FAA might bring against the paint shop.