Another Mooney Down N3386X

[ArtVandelay]

11 minutes ago, M20Doc said:

Accidents like this perpetuate the fearsome reputation Mooneys have.  Let's hope is was mechanical failure not pilot failure.

Clarence

I don't see how that helps?

[nels]

The photos show the gear retracted. I wonder if he aborted the landing at the last second after realizing the gear was up or maybe, if it was a manual gear plane, he tried pulling the gear back up before he had enough altitude and dipped the nose or stalled the plane. Possibly the gear was not fully latched in the down position and collapsed under the load? I check that gear down light, the latch mechanism, the thumb button many time prior to touchdown.

All speculation but as we all are thinking, Just relieved no one was injured!

[Guest]

3 hours ago, teejayevans said:

I don't see how that helps?

If you can loose control doing something as simple as landing, they must be really hard to control.

Clarence

[ArtVandelay]

14 minutes ago, M20Doc said:

If you can loose control doing something as simple as landing, they must be really hard to control.

Clarence

But if you can crash and still walk away they must be built really well and safe.

[BradJBenson]

I'm pretty sure you'll find that it was pilot error. In one photo, the left main is clearly down. You can even see the 3 tire marks in the grass before it hit the fence. 

[DXB]

Yeah the gear is at least partly down-I Didn't   notice earlier. He could have struggled with J bar retraction on go around, lost track of pitch and yaw in he process, stalled, controlled incipient spin just in time to meet the earth at survivable attitude.  How's that for wild, pointless speculation that is really just a projection of my own fears?  

Suspect there's a useful lesson here, but  NTSB will say something insightful on the root cause like "failure of the pilot to maintain directional control of the aircraft on a go around." Duh.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, DXB said:

Yeah the gear is at least partly down-I Didn't   notice earlier. He could have struggled with J bar retraction on go around, lost track of pitch and yaw in he process, stalled, controlled incipient spin just in time to meet the earth at survivable attitude.  How's that for wild, pointless speculation that is really just a projection of my own fears?  

Suspect there's a useful lesson here, but  NTSB will say something insightful on the root cause like "failure of the pilot to maintain directional control of the aircraft on a go around." Duh.

Maybe we could send him one of Don's Mooney landing videos.

Clarence

[BradJBenson]

While I'm no expert on accidents (have only had one of my own ), based on the damage to the plane and the details in the various articles, I'm thinking he was fully on the ground when he lost control. I see no evidence of a stall, merely "loss of directional control after landing while attempting to configure for a go around."

Edited May 5, 2016 by BradJBenson

[Shadrach]

50 minutes ago, BradJBenson said:

While I'm no expert on accidents (have only had one of my own ), based on the damage to the plane and the details in the various articles, I'm thinking he was fully on the ground when he lost control. I see no evidence of a stall, merely "loss of directional control after landing while attempting to configure for a go around."

I've never understood what configuration changes need to be made.  A 200HP mooney does not struggle to climb with full flaps and gear down. It climbs at a lower pitch angle with great visibility.  I have practiced T&Gs in various configurations. All of them work.  Fly the plane and trim out control pressure. Retract laps in stages as airspeed an altitude increase. It is not hard in a mid body (or I assume a short body) Mooney.

[BradJBenson]

Exactly what you said, Shadrich. Other than power to full, there's not much else "important" to do. (After you're safely climbing, you can make sure your cowl flaps are open, gear goes up, verify prop and mixture full forward, and retract flaps...however, if you're just making a lap in the pattern, the gear and flaps hardly matter.) There were two people aboard and that plane never had a problem climbing in any configuration. I just don't think his piloting skills were up to par. 

[steingar]

Really, if you're too hot to land the runway your decision to go around should happen well before you touch down.  It isn't that hard a thing to see.

[bonal]

Just now, steingar said:

Really, if you're too hot to land the runway your decision to go around should happen well before you touch down.  It isn't that hard a thing to see.

Especially for an ophthalmologist

[Hank]

That's baaaad . . . I'm at the ophthalmologist'so office right now . . .

[Marauder]

That's baaaad . . . I'm at the ophthalmologist'so office right now . . .

Hint:

E

F P

T O Z

L P E D

P E C F D

[wishboneash]

Corrected that for you ...

E

FP

TOZ

LPED

PECFD

[Laurel]

Up until four years ago, my husband and I owned this plane 3386X. For some of you old Mooney owners, you might remember the Zane Goforth post at the Mooney Mail List about the young boy who was afraid the wings might fall off his Daddy's M20F.  http://www.mooneyevents.com/humor3.html. His Dad's plane was 3386X.  For an update on Zane, he has been a commuter captain flying the ERJ, a first officer on a 747 flying cargo around the world and is now a corporate pilot flying a Cessna Citation CJ4. To date, no wings have fallen off his planes.

[helitim]

                                           G

                           E             A            R

                      D            O           W              N

Edited May 7, 2016 by helitim

[BradJBenson]

52 minutes ago, Laurel said:

Up until four years ago, my husband and I owned this plane 3386X. For some of you old Mooney owners, you might remember the Zane Goforth post at the Mooney Mail List about the young boy who was afraid the wings might fall off his Daddy's M20F.  http://www.mooneyevents.com/humor3.html. His Dad's plane was 3386X.  For an update on Zane, he has been a commuter captain flying the ERJ, a first officer on a 747 flying cargo around the world and is now a corporate pilot flying a Cessna Citation CJ4. To date, no wings have fallen off his planes.

Funny you mention this about the wings falling off. When installing new avionics and instrumentation about 2 years ago in that plane, the shop found a large rat's nest on top of the wing spar. Pee and other nasty things had caused pretty severe corrosion to the wing spar cap. Photos were taken and sent to Mooney engineers in Kerrville who said it was severe enough that the spar cap should be replaced. It was a pretty big job--costly, too, at about $15,000. I guess the shop did good work as it appears the wing won and the wood fence clearly lost this battle. 

Edited May 7, 2016 by BradJBenson

[carusoam]

Welcome aboard, Laurel.  

Thanks for the update.

Best regards,

-a-

[Txbyker]

On May 3, 2016 at 7:18 PM, Hank said:

I agree with Nobody (different meaning than "I agree with no one"). After being down South in the land of mile-long runways for a year, it was time to revisit friends in WV at the 3000' strip where I got my license and was based for 7 years. So I found a nearby 3150' strip and visited once--me, the wife and half tanks, just to see if I needed more practice before filling up, loading up and flying 3+ hours. When I found I had no problem, I put the plane away and finished getting ready for the trip.

Last weekend I had another voluntary IPC, just because I've not been inside a cloud since the last Mooney Summit in early October. Foggles with a friend aren't the same as actual, but foggles with a CFII can still help prepare me. So now I'm ready to go. But where to? Hmmm . . .

This is just my way of saying that practice is a good thing. Practice with an http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/FAA-investigating-after-fiery-plane-crash-in-1535769.php

I remember reading several years ago about someone in a high-powered Mooney losing it like this on a go around, ended up against a tree in someone's back yard. Texas? Gotta know your plane, gotta learn it with a knowledgable instructor, and practice practice practice. 

Hank, I think this was the one you mention a few years ago...http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/FAA-investigating-after-fiery-plane-crash-in-1535769.php

Very similar, small strip and in a back yard and everyone survived.  On this one, someone told me he was low time owner and was attempting a go around.  

Russ

[BradJBenson]

5 minutes ago, Hyett6420 said:

Ok my views on this.  Look CLOSELY at the photograph and the gear marks leading to the fence, you will see that the right gear went right over a metal fence post and completely flattened it and also it certainly the gear.  The nose wheel did the same.  We have all been talking about gear retraction etc, but the evidence does not support that. 

Why he lost control, I don't know, BUT I would lay odds that the gear was down completely and was flattened by the fence posts.

ps as a property developer can I just say that fence was hideous anyway and needed flattening! Metal posts on a wooden fence, sacrilege!   . 

Your thoughts mimic mine exactly. I'm pretty sure the loss of control happened on the ground with the gear fully down. I know this pilot had a history of messing up airplanes. Maybe he just screwed up. 

[Shadrach]

39 minutes ago, Hyett6420 said:

Ok my views on this.  Look CLOSELY at the photograph and the gear marks leading to the fence, you will see that the right gear went right over a metal fence post and completely flattened it and also it certainly the gear.  The nose wheel did the same.  We have all been talking about gear retraction etc, but the evidence does not support that. 

Why he lost control, I don't know, BUT I would lay odds that the gear was down completely and was flattened by the fence posts.

ps as a property developer can I just say that fence was hideous anyway and needed flattening! Metal posts on a wooden fence, sacrilege!   . 

you are a picky one!  No one could see the metal save for people in on airport property. it was built for the homeowner's to view from their yard.  Not my taste in homes personally.  I prefer 100yr old or more money pits...