Pre-Buy advice neeed

[airnav99]

Hi everyone,

I am looking for some pre-buy inspection advice on purchasing my first Mooney, which also happens to be my first airplane too.  I've done a reasonable amount of searching (on my second year now), looking for an M20E or F model.  I'm based in in Northern CA, but I've found an M20F in CT that I'm serious about.  So the question is around getting a pre-buy inspection by an A&P or IA, or, fore-going that and just inspecting it myself.  I've studied the Lasar pre-buy checklist (here:  http://www.lasar.com/sales/checklist.asp) and it seems the only items I wouldn't be able to check as a private pilot would be engine compression, plugs and opening up of the oil filter - granted however, that those are very important items to check.  The other thing to consider is that the aircraft will be getting a fresh annual (by the current owner) in the coming weeks.  So, another option would be to give the pre-buy checklist to whomever is doing the annual and paying them for inspections on on the pre-buy checklist that aren't already on the annual checklist.  Has anyone done such a thing?  What have your experiences been? 

Thanks for your suggestions!

[Jim Peace]

Even though they are just service bulletins be sure SBM20-208B and M20-217 are completed if they are required by year and serial number.  These can cost thousands if there is a problem found.....trust me.....I have the canceled checks to prove it..........

Also during the PPI make sure the tanks are topped off to the rim for a 24 hours and inspect for leaks.......

 

[Guest]

A pre purchase by a Mooney knowledgeable shop not connected with the seller is the best thing for your financial health.  It's a risk proposition without skilled help.

Clarence

Eastern Canada MSC

[DrBill]

not recommend owners mechanic doing prebuy or anyone else that has maintained a/c.  Are you well versed in looking for signs of corrosion ? Probably the best thing to have someone else look for and to open/close all the panels(that in itself is at least 2 hrs). When I bought my E my mech opened it up and called me to check it out with him.  Obviously ok since I bought it. Did sb209 too (inspect cage for corrosion,remove interior side panels)

Then I had my mech turn it into an annual even tho it was only 6 mos into previous.

Bill

 

[glafaille]

Airnav-

Best bet is to contact a fellow mooneyspace guy that lives in the area, he will know a mechanic to help you out.  Might even know the plane.  Drop a line to marauder, he is a big help on these issues and a big contributor on this board, plus I think he lives in the North East.  

He will likely chime in in a bit.

[Marauder]

Hi everyone,

I am looking for some pre-buy inspection advice on purchasing my first Mooney, which also happens to be my first airplane too.  I've done a reasonable amount of searching (on my second year now), looking for an M20E or F model.  I'm based in in Northern CA, but I've found an M20F in CT that I'm serious about.  So the question is around getting a pre-buy inspection by an A&P or IA, or, fore-going that and just inspecting it myself.  I've studied the Lasar pre-buy checklist (here:  http://www.lasar.com/sales/checklist.asp) and it seems the only items I wouldn't be able to check as a private pilot would be engine compression, plugs and opening up of the oil filter - granted however, that those are very important items to check.  The other thing to consider is that the aircraft will be getting a fresh annual (by the current owner) in the coming weeks.  So, another option would be to give the pre-buy checklist to whomever is doing the annual and paying them for inspections on on the pre-buy checklist that aren't already on the annual checklist.  Has anyone done such a thing?  What have your experiences been? 

Thanks for your suggestions!

Check with the Mooney Service Center in Danbury CT to see if they know the plane. If not, I wouldn't hesitate using them. A buddy of mine who owns a J outside of Rochester has been going to them for years.

If you want another opinion, there are MSCs in Lancaster, PA (Weber's) and Englishtown NJ (Air Mods).

If the owner is part of the NJ Mooney Pilot Group on Yahoo, we may know the plane and owner. Drop me a PM and I will ask the group.

[airnav99]

Thanks for everyone's replies!  I really appreciate your thoughts on this.  

Marauder:  that's a great idea about contacting the Mooney Service Center in CT.  I'll call them on Monday.  And will be dropping you a PM as suggested.  Thank you.

[gsengle]

I just looked on Mooney's website and they don't list a Msc in CT, who are you thinking of?

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[Marauder]

I just looked on Mooney's website and they don't list a Msc in CT, who are you thinking of?

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I don't see them either. Wonder if they stopped being an MSC. They were at Danbury. I will sent my buddy a note and see what the story is. Looks like there is one on Long Island.

http://www.mooney.com/en/Support.html

[gsengle]

And one outside Boston....

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[Supercop0184]

Just made a purchase of a very nice and clean C model. The owner was meticulous, kept her clean inside and out, maintained impeccable records, she was the "perfect" find. However, after a very in depth Pre Purchase Inspection by Don Maxwell (if you haven't heard of him yet you will, he's the mooney guru and runs a very well respected MSC in Texas) he found 6400 ish dollars worth of repairs he found to be "airworthy" issues. Basically, my 1450 pre purchase inspection saved me 6400 dollars, so basically I ended up 5000 dollars ahead.

These are great airplanes, but they are like a "specialty item"

It's best to let a "specialty" shop at least give you a good reputable inspection.

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[Marauder]

Ok, verified that Conn Mooney is no longer in existence. Dick Leinert ran it and passed away in 2013.

To Derek -- I would check out the one in the Boston area that gsengle pointed out.

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[carusoam]

Outside of Boston may be at Norwood, MA KOWD.(?)

An airport I had used a lot, but never visited the MSC...  My M20C was nervous about going to see the MSC.

Best regards,

-a-

[Robert C.]

Sorry I checked in so late...I'm Danbury based and knew the MSC is no longer there. Reliant Air is my FBO and the shop maintains, and does annuals, on at least 3 Mooneys, including my Ovation, a J and an older one.

I am happy to recommend them. If you are still looking for someone I suggest you give them a call (203-743-5100) and ask for Steve Disorbo who is the Head of Maintenance there. Feel free to mention my name (although I'm small fry and I'm sure that won't get you special treatment  )

Robert

[bradp]

I used to be based at OWD.  I wouldn't call the the MSC there as particularly Mooney knowledgeable.  I would recommend Weber or Air Mods.    I think John Breda is up in Boston and can probably chime in.  

[Kejidog]

On April 2, 2016 at 8:09 PM, M20Doc said:

A pre purchase by a Mooney knowledgeable shop not connected with the seller is the best thing for your financial health.  It's a risk proposition without skilled help.

Clarence

Eastern Canada MSC

Eastern?  Clarence do you know of any AME's further east than Ontario?  Nova Scotia potential owner here and looking for some expertise on the East Coast of Canada.  Really learning a lot from your posts and hoping to purchase the aircraft i found out in sechelt. Having a PPI done this week. Perhaps flying out to participate in an annual then to make a purchase offer. I appreciate your comments on here. 

 

Bruce. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Kejidog said:

Eastern?  Clarence do you know of any AME's further east than Ontario?  Nova Scotia potential owner here and looking for some expertise on the East Coast of Canada.  Really learning a lot from your posts and hoping to purchase the aircraft i found out in sechelt. Having a PPI done this week. Perhaps flying out to participate in an annual then to make a purchase offer. I appreciate your comments on here. 

 

Bruce. 

Hello Bruce,

Sorry I don't know of any in Eastern Canada with expertise in Mooney aircraft.  Maybe some of the eastern Mooney owners will chime in.

Clarence

[whiskytango]

You might want to consider using Mike Busch's Savvy Aviation Maintenance Management service to locate a Mooney knowledgeable shop to do the pre-buy.   

[Kejidog]

21 hours ago, whiskytango said:

You might want to consider using Mike Busch's Savvy Aviation Maintenance Management service to locate a Mooney knowledgeable shop to do the pre-buy.   

I checked them out. Would they operate this service for a canadian buyer? 

[Steve Dawson]

I checked them out. Would they operate this service for a canadian buyer?

Yes they will. I asked when I was looking and I have them on their Savvy Anylist service

 

[Robert C.]

I used them/Savvy (first time buyer/owner, felt i could use all the help I could get) and was not impressed. Really all they do is make the basic arrangement and approve invoices, which aggravates the shop to no end.

As it turns out, the MSC that did my pre-buy did a very sloppy job and there was no way for Savvy to catch that as they are not involved in supervising the actual process.

I walked away with the feeling that if you are buying an aircraft that is older and you have lot's of questions about how to go about solving the many small problems that'll come up then this might be a useful service. If you are buying a more recent aircraft that is basically well maintained then you may not get much use out of them.

My expectation was that I would have access to someone that I could speak to and discuss things I didn't understand. As it turns out all interaction is via their squak system with write ups and limited advice/response based on the questions asked. So my feeling was that they are mostly an intermediary. Again, if you have a major issue they might be helpful in getting multiple bids or asking for different checks/tests but otherwise I saw limited utility. 

I didn't regret spending the money on them for the prebuy and the 1st year support but didn't see the need to renew beyond that.

YMMV ofc