IFR routes and Icing forecast.

[kmyfm20s]

I parked my plane today and had to drive because of the icing forecast:( I'm also going to a meeting in Las Vegas tomorrow which I was hoping to fly to and 2 other offices this week. Ouch reality! The coastal mountains here in San Diego make the MEA 9000' going east so an IFR flight is difficult for a couple of reasons during the winter. The first is because it usually put you at exactly the freezing level and the second is the clouds bunch up at the mountian and causing mountian obscuration with no ceiling to break out of in case of an engine out senerio. Even if I had FIKI TKS it would be a no go. There is 1 airway along the border, V317 which has a MEA of 7000' and would allow me to make this flight, eliminating the 2 mentioned problems. The problem is every time I file for V317 ATC denies it and put me on V66(9000') which makes it a no go for me. I wish I knew how to get them to accept the V317 route! I pretty sure it is because it crosses the approach path of KSAN. Does anyone know how to make it happen? 

 

[Jeff_S]

I'm, guessing there are no TEC routes out there, eh? That may be an option if you haven't already looked for them. Barring that, it's a bit difficult to tell from your post where you're trying to go...MRF to IPL? You may just be in a situation where the capabilities of the airplane don't match the current weather...sometimes that happens.

[ArtVandelay]

Did you try to add a statement to remarks section, unable to accept v66, or altitude restriction of 8000.

[glafaille]

Why not call the center and ask them.  Many controllers are pilots, most are great guys and more than willing to help if they can.  Explain your problem, they might even authorize you to go on a case by case basis. Might be worth a visit to check out the facility and spread a bit of Mooney happiness!

I used to fly night freight between Dallas and Kansas City and was just about on a first name basis with several of the controllers.  I used to get cleared direct to Kansas City almost by the time the wheels hit the wells.

Edited January 5, 2016 by glafaille

[kmyfm20s]

There are TEC routes but not going over the coastal mountains. The destination this week would be KIPL, KUDD, KLAS. All of them require crossing over the coastal mountains and with V66(9000') and others would put me in the muck. V317(7000') shown below would keep me out of it most of the time and get me to the east of the mountains and out of the weather.

[kmyfm20s]

9 minutes ago, teejayevans said:

Did you try to add a statement to remarks section, unable to accept v66, or altitude restriction of 8000.

No I haven't and I need to try it on an actual IMC day I guess. I have filed and argued with clearance delivery that I wanted V317 with no success but that was on a VMC days and since it was VMC I didn't think to use the remarks area. I like to practice routes to know what to expect if I can. Great suggestion, thanks! Has anyone had success doing this in some similar fashion?

[peevee]

all you need is a turbo and tks!

and me too.

[peevee]

18 minutes ago, kmyfm20s said:

No I haven't and I need to try it on an actual IMC day I guess. I have filed and argued with clearance delivery that I wanted V317 with no success but that was on a VMC days and since it was VMC I didn't think to use the remarks area. I like to practice routes to know what to expect if I can. Great suggestion, thanks! Has anyone had success doing this in some similar fashion?

the answer would depend on why the computer pushes you back over the other route. My suspicion is your answer can be found on the lyndi4 arrival as there's a stream from IPL to lucki that just about follows v317 down to 8k feet or so. You can always ask and they can suppress the PDR but it'll usually involve a phonecall to approach from the clearance delivery person... as busy as socal approach is my thought is it's probably an automatic no....

However the EED stream is pretty busy and goes right over BARET which is on v66, which is arguably a worse place for you as they cross baret at or above 8 and the mea appears to be 8400 on v66.

longwinded answer for I DUNNO!

Edited January 5, 2016 by peevee

[peevee]

42 minutes ago, glafaille said:

Why not call the center and ask them.  Many controllers are pilots, most are great guys and more than willing to help if they can.  Explain your problem, they might even authorize you to go on a case by case basis. Might be worth a visit to check out the facility and spread a bit of Mooney happiness!

I used to fly night freight between Dallas and Kansas City and was just about on a first name basis with several of the controllers.  I used to get cleared direct to Kansas City almost by the time the wheels hit the wells.

likely not center but socal approach...

facility visits are always a good idea at centers, I don't know how tracons feel about it, they're a lot smaller physically.

Edited January 5, 2016 by peevee

[kmyfm20s]

Great idea on visiting Tracon! I haven't but heard their good about tours.

[peevee]

12 minutes ago, kmyfm20s said:

Great idea on visiting Tracon! I haven't but heard their good about tours.

side note: the border7 from SAN is right along PGY.v317.IPL, might also be the culprit. Wonder if you could file MYF..MZB.BRDR7.IPL and see if the system would take it? BRDR isn't listed for MYF but you can always try.

edit: oops I had routes from SAN..IPL on flightaware instead of MYF.

 

Edited January 5, 2016 by peevee

[yvesg]

A year ago I had to fly from KSYR to CYND while there were IFR conditions caused by snow showers along my route just east of Lake Ontario. It was around -10C on the ground and the forecast called for Icing above 3000. I filed and put this remark: Unable to fly above 3K, no de-icing equipment.

I got the clearance I wanted. The flight went as planned, no ice accumulation along the route. I was always ready to turn back if needed however this did not materialized. Cloud base was a bit higher than 3000 but had zero visibility in snow showers.

Yves

 

 

[bradp]

There is a method to trick the computer to get the route you want.  My flight instructor used this method routinely to avoid the eastern PA / southern NY tour when flying from DC to Boston.  He would file an intermediate airport as the destination and his preferred destination as the alternate (only doable when an alternate is not actually required).  He would then ask the controller for his alternate en route and negotiate directly.   He would almost often get the original route he wanted but the computer rejected. Just info no personal endorsement and YMMV. 

 

Alternatively, he he, you could file up V23 towards PMD if you are just concerned about costal weather and can accept higher MVAs in the desert.  It adds about 112 mm to the trip but it may keep you out of the ice and from having to drive 6hrs.

 

Edited January 6, 2016 by bradp

[1964-M20E]

15 hours ago, kmyfm20s said:

Great idea on visiting Tracon! I haven't but heard their good about tours.

yes good idea just call first to set it up.

 

 

[N201MKTurbo]

I have never had trouble getting V317 flying out of Brown. Perhaps if you flew VFR to Brown and picked up the clearance there.

[kmyfm20s]

1 hour ago, N201MKTurbo said:

I have never had trouble getting V317 flying out of Brown. Perhaps if you flew VFR to Brown and picked up the clearance there.

I was thinking that this morning. Maybe filing 2 flight plans, a TEC to Brown and once in the air requesting to open the 2nd flight plan with V317. I don't have time this week to try it but next week Im going to give a few of the ideas mentioned a whirl.