Prebuy results interpretation

[Yetti]

Waiting for the return.  Non Texas people don't get it.  When you are out of Blue Bell you are out of ice cream

[HRM]

... my wife vetoed the short bodies after trying to fit a stroller in an E. 

 

Jeez, how big is that stroller?

[Bob_Belville]

Jeez, how big is that stroller?

The baggage door is the same size on all Mooneys, at least through K, isn't it? And the F/G/J/K only added a couple of inches to baggage area and 10" to back seat leg room, I think.

[RobertGary1]

The baggage door is the same size on all Mooneys, at least through K, isn't it? And the F/G/J/K only added a couple of inches to baggage area and 10" to back seat leg room, I think.

Yes but that's a HUGE 10". It's the difference between getting an adult in the back and not. I've had adults in the back of an E but it wasn't pretty.

-Robert

[Marauder]

Jeez, how big is that stroller?

For the big baby silly!

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[carusoam]

Girlfiend's kids, of course....?

[mooniac15u]

Jeez, how big is that stroller?

I had the same issue trying to fit a stroller in my M20D. Any of the lightweight strollers tend to fold into thin, but long, form factors. I found that a cheap umbrella stroller from Target or Walmart would just fit in the cargo area on a diagonal. It always had to go in last.

[Tom]

http://www.lasar.com/w/id/215/new-plane-details.asp

 

http://www.lasar.com/w/id/200/new-plane-details.asp

 

Indeed, what is wrong with one of these?  A 250 SMOH F with no damage history maintained by LASAR for $48,000?

[ArtVandelay]

Indeed, what is wrong with one of these?  A 250 SMOH F with no damage history maintained by LASAR for $48,000?

you expected it to be higher?  Portable GPS, wing leveler AP, no stormscope or HSI, old interior and paint. I say thats about right

[gsxrpilot]

How about getting a "travel" stroller? Those extra few inches in an F are EXPENSIVE. Hell, for the difference in cost, you could ship the stroller ahead each time. 

[Bob_Belville]

you expected it to be higher?  Portable GPS, wing leveler AP, no stormscope or HSI, old interior and paint. I say thats about right

The point is that druidjaidan has a budget of $60k. He wants an IFR, his partners wants an F. I noted that 2 planes on the LASAR site met those specs. The owner of the $48k 69F has owned the plane for over 30 years, the paint is fine (if you're s Tar Heel fan) and the interior is supposed to be 1 year old. The panel is very old but the rest of the story looks promising. I would want to talk to that long time owner to get a feel for where his priorities have been over the years.  

 

The '75F in Louisiana might be a better buy at $55k newer plane, much better panel, long time owner, low time engine, nice paint...

[mooniac15u]

How about getting a "travel" stroller? Those extra few inches in an F are EXPENSIVE. Hell, for the difference in cost, you could ship the stroller ahead each time.

Most are just too long to fit in the cargo area of a short body Mooney. I did buy a cheap one at my destination once.

[RobertGary1]

you expected it to be higher? Portable GPS, wing leveler AP, no stormscope or HSI, old interior and paint. I say thats about right

And isn't that the one in Louisiana? Probably a smaller market than on the coasts.

-Robert

[Tom]

you expected it to be higher?  Portable GPS, wing leveler AP, no stormscope or HSI, old interior and paint. I say thats about right

 

Welcome to the current market.  48k is a good price for a LASAR maintained F given the seller's stated particulars if the plane is as represented.  This plane is otherwise relatively close to the PNW, as is the buyer.  Doesn't make sense that this plane isn't considered under the circumstances, but what do I know.

 

This situatiuon does not seem to be unique.  I'm reminded of a BT thread where a buyer was repetitively quite vocal about either sifting through the "garbage" on the market or about the "over-priced" presumably quality planes available.(insinuating collusion between sellers, brokers, and the like). If you're a buyer looking for a smoking deal (e.g. a significantly underpriced bird)...and you genuinely anticipate and hope that every low priced bird is going to be "the one" then you will be left sorely disappointed.  

[ryoder]

Seeing the vocal and disgusted buyers makes me want to hold onto my Mooney or scrap it rather than deal with that attitude. Another option is to have a broker sell it. I bought my C from the local broker and he should be able to move it for me fast if I needed to get rid of it.

[druidjaidan]

Jeez, how big is that stroller?

Honestly, just a lightweight single kid folding stroller. Not an umbrella stroller which of course could fit, but on the smaller end of things. It fit easily flat in the G model we looked at. No dice in the E.

The stroller though is just an example. Really the sales pitch on the plane involves being able to travel and stay places with 2 adults and 2 children as the mission we see ourselves having for the next 5-10 years. My wife couldn't see the short body making that work. Whether she's wrong I don't care to test =)

[ryoder]

Honestly, just a lightweight single kid folding stroller. Not an umbrella stroller which of course could fit, but on the smaller end of things. It fit easily flat in the G model we looked at. No dice in the E.

The stroller though is just an example. Really the sales pitch on the plane involves being able to travel and stay places with 2 adults and 2 children as the mission we see ourselves having for the next 5-10 years. My wife couldn't see the short body making that work. Whether she's wrong I don't care to test =)

Yeah don't change the story.  The whole house of cards logical argument for buying a plane could come crashing down.

[druidjaidan]

http://www.lasar.com/w/id/215/new-plane-details.asp

 

http://www.lasar.com/w/id/200/new-plane-details.asp

 

 

Indeed, what is wrong with one of these?  A 250 SMOH F with no damage history maintained by LASAR for $48,000?

 

Indeed..nothing is wrong with either of them and I'm going to reach out to the sellers and try to get more information.  That said...neither of them are spectacular either.  They are both (particularly the LASAR maintained one) sitting on low time engines that barely get run.  That isn't a good omen.  In the numbers right on the listing the LASAR one indicates that engine only made it to 1200 hours last time around.  A few wise people have told me to buy the plane with the panel you want, panel upgrades are some of the worst returns possible.  Both of these planes would likely need panel upgrades.  The '69 doesn't have and IFR GPS and has a poorish radio IFR panel (no DME).  Could it get the job done? Sure.  The '75 is running an Apollo GX-60.  How long will jepp really make nava data for that?  Both the gps and the MFD in that plane are completely out of service as well, and the GX-60 has a habit of destroying screens from what I've read.

 

Also the LASAR site is atrocious for listing planes.  Low quality downscaled photos, few photos, unfilterable, etc.  It makes it really easy to overlook listings on their site.  Basically neither of these planes stood out in anyway, so I didn't contact them before.  Either way, having cooled a bit, I've come to the conclusion I'm in no rush.  If we find the right plane we'll buy it.  If not, our salary and savings goes up every year. 

[Bob_Belville]

Yes but that's a HUGE 10". It's the difference between getting an adult in the back and not. I've had adults in the back of an E but it wasn't pretty.

-Robert

I've had 4 real (>170#) adults in my Es quite a few times for flights of a couple of hours. Headed to KQMI or KMRH -- less than 2 hours in what is approximately like an Airbus window seat beats 6 or 7 hours fighting traffic in a Japanese car any time. I've never had someone decline a ride to the beach because the ladies in the back felt cramped. (I'm short. A 6'4' pilot would need to steal a lot more of the legroom behind him.)

 

The bigger issue might be that the short Mooneys have a 2575# gross and about 900# useful. The F is 2740# and maybe over 1000# useful. 

[mike_elliott]

While the F does have more room that is really appreciable over an E if you are in the back, the fact will prove out that you probably wont have anyone in the back 90% of the time. Bob mentioned the real advantages of a F over an E besides more room, it has a much higher payload and much longer legs than an E. It gives up about 4 to 5 kts. Finding one for the price point you want equipped as you want will be a real challenge.

[druidjaidan]

I've had 4 real (>170#) adults in my Es quite a few times for flights of a couple of hours. Headed to KQMI or KMRH -- less than 2 hours in what is approximately like an Airbus window seat beats 6 or 7 hours fighting traffic in a Japanese car any time. I've never had someone decline a ride to the beach because the ladies in the back felt cramped. (I'm short. A 6'4' pilot would need to steal a lot more of the legroom behind him.)

 

The bigger issue might be that the short Mooneys have a 2575# gross and about 900# useful. The F is 2740# and maybe over 1000# useful. 

 

The higher gross weight is a major factor.  By partner requires 950+ and would prefer 1050+.  Which makes the F a solid choice and the E unlikely.  There aren't too many options out there for non HP planes with 1000+ gross.  And neither of us want to fuel or maintain the extra cylinders.  

[RobertGary1]

15+ years ago I decided the F was the best choice for me. The kids were small but it was obvious they'd be over 6'. They logged a good 1,000 hours sitting in the back of the F. I'm not sure those long Mexico trips would have been as much fun for them at 6' tall behind me at 6'4" in an E. As mentioned by 1000# useful load made fam trips possible. The J is a great plane too but the cost difference between the J and F didn't seem justifiable. 

The 64 gal tank was a big help as well. There were several trips that would have been greatly impacted if we were limited to 50 gal. This is especially true in Mexico where sometimes a fuel pump will be broken and you see all the short leg planes sitting around for a week waiting for someone to drive out from mainland to fix it.

 

-Robert

[Bob_Belville]

I have O&N bladders in my E. I could get their newer option to add 5 gallons on each side which would take my E to 64 gallons matching the F. And this might make sense if I wanted to fly 5 hours legs with just 2 on board.

 

Even with Oxygen and a Travel John I prefer to break flights into smaller legs. And even if I wanted to macho it my co-pilot and wife of 51 plus years would nix that idea. 

[Marauder]

The higher gross weight is a major factor. By partner requires 950+ and would prefer 1050+. Which makes the F a solid choice and the E unlikely. There aren't too many options out there for non HP planes with 1000+ gross. And neither of us want to fuel or maintain the extra cylinders.

The 2,740 lb. gross weight on the F and earlier Js make them appealing. However, you are going to find that once equipped, most of them are below 1,000 lb. useable. My 1975 F came out of the factory with basic equipment and with a useable of 1,030 lb. It didn't take long before the IFR avionics were installed and the weight gain happened. When I bought her in 1991, she was down to 985. She is currently at 960 lb.

[Marauder]

I have O&N bladders in my E. I could get their newer option to add 5 gallons on each side which would take my E to 64 gallons matching the F. And this might make sense if I wanted to fly 5 hours legs with just 2 on board.

 

Even with Oxygen and a Travel John I prefer to break flights into smaller legs. And even if I wanted to macho it my co-pilot and wife of 51 plus years would nix that idea. 

 

The "Little Jane" experiment was attempted with my wife one time. That is all she took for the 54 to 64 gallon upgrade discussion to end. I tried to persuade her to give Depends a try (like Bennet and me ) but she said something about needing to be in diapers twice in her life and not three times. As I have gotten older, I'm like you and not Stinky Pants, sitting for more than 3 hours isn't comfortable anymore.

 

For you young guns:

 

a Little Jane: