Drones spotted inside NY Bravo by several airplanes on approach!

[PTK]

More drones! This time around EWR and JFK!

This drone thing is becoming a real danger. Are these things regulated? Is it even possible?

Or are we going to wait until an accident happens first!

[slowflyin]

Unmanned aircraft in that airspace is already against the law.  Much like lasers, this is an education/enforcement issue.  

[Yetti]

There was a stack of them for sale at Sam's Club yesterday.  $99.00 and more avionics that a certified mooney.

[Jim Peace]

Or are we going to wait until an accident happens first!

FAR's are written in blood........

 

Also unless there is a politician on board the plane or one on the ground who is hurt it still may not trigger regulation.  

[Browncbr1]

It is illegal for radio control aircraft to fly within 3 miles of an airport. And outside of that radius, they are not to fly over 200ft if I remember correctly. However, few do not follow these rules. However stupid the RC pilot might be, it is very easy to hear, see, and avoid manned aircraft by quickly bringing it down. But, the ones that are GPS driven with video goggles lose a bit of situational awareness compared to direct line of sight from the ground. The AMA has a clear policy in compliance with FAA regs and sanctioned AMA fields required each person to carry insurance and to abide by AMA and FAA rules. There are some bad apples out there, but no reason to shut them all down... If we shut them down, then we are no different than the commercial guys trying to get rid of GA.

If someone is interfering with B airspace, then they should send out an FCC and FAA person to track and find the person and file a report with The AMA and possibly a citation if within the legal scope. I see plenty of manned aircraft scud running over dense populated areas, dive bombing , buzzing houses, turning right traffic rather than left, and other stupid things... Doesn't mean all of GA should be shut down. Infractions should be dealt with though.

[Yetti]

It's not illegal in the FAA sense of the FAR.  There is an AC that suggests what RC controlled flying vehicles should do.  The FAA failed to do the rule making process properly

[DS1980]

We get them a few times a week at KDEN. We had multiple reports from aircraft on final approach the other day. Either they are large drones, or very close, or both.

The problem with these things is they can't be tracked. We will probably never catch the operators, even just to educated them.

I think a drone operator should have to have a pilots license, or the FAA should issue a certificate showing the operator is familiar with airspace.

Just like flying model airplanes. "Must be an AMA member and be showing credentials to fly at our airfield."

[DS1980]

And how is right traffic a "stupid" thing? There are some airports that require "RP"

[Yetti]

Depending on the complexity they can be tracked.  If they are flying POV, there is a downlink with telemetry data.   You could query the avionics for the take off point if you wanted to.  

[N33GG]

I wonder how many of them are operated by NSA or other government agencies. Do youthink they will fess up if one of their machines causes an accident? I have my bet.

[DS1980]

Depending on the complexity they can be tracked.  If they are flying POV, there is a downlink with telemetry data.   You could query the avionics for the take off point if you wanted to.  

How? You might have some very interested people.

[Yetti]

Build a ground station.  Point it at the drone.  Get an FPV receiver.   Record the telemetry and the video feed.   Usually faces and houses will show up landing or taking off.  http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__543__172__FPV_Aerial_Video_Telemetry-FPV_Accessories.html

 

 

Realizing off course that flying an RC model is about as illegal as throwing a football in class B.   Throwing a frisbee in a TFR or flying a UAV could be considered illegal based on the wording.   Flying a kite with a camera attached is also legal per the FARs ant TFR language.      The FAA is as behind the times here as they are allowing safer equipment in a certified plane.   But then again the Border Patrol still chases illegal aliens and drug runners with horse and ATVs....

[DonMuncy]

I would think that regulating the drone building industry might be easier and more practical. They could require any drone sold to have a GPS and restrict its programing to not allow flight above x feet or within y miles of an airport.

[yvesg]

I would think that regulating the drone building industry might be easier and more practical. They could require any drone sold to have a GPS and restrict its programing to not allow flight above x feet or within y miles of an airport.

I would also add to this a requirement for the drone to send telemetry with a unique ID. Airlines could have a receiver that will be connected to the black box, recording nearby drone activity. This would leave traces if something bad happens.

Yves

[Browncbr1]

And how is right traffic a "stupid" thing? There are some airports that require "RP"

  I meant to say people turn RP in and out of our LP downtown airport all the time.

[Joe Zuffoletto]

We get them a few times a week at KDEN. We had multiple reports from aircraft on final approach the other day. Either they are large drones, or very close, or both.

 

I can't think of anything on the approach path to any of KDEN's runways that's worth seeing from the air!  

[Browncbr1]

I would think that regulating the drone building industry might be easier and more practical. They could require any drone sold to have a GPS and restrict its programing to not allow flight above x feet or within y miles of an airport.

 

Actually, GPS and telemetry systems are what enable the owner to fly well beyond sight... 

With the right equipment, you can literally plug in coordinates and it will go there and back on its own.   Any software hurdles will be overcome by hackers.. 

 

I think education is important.. Also, would be good to see RC fields on sectionals. I know of several AMA sanctioned fields that should be on sectionals, particularly the airfield just NW of KBDU, and the sod fields NW of KDEN...  

[Browncbr1]

I can't think of anything on the approach path to any of KDEN's runways that's worth seeing from the air!  

NW of KDEN, there is a sod farm where AMA F3J and F3K RC soaring competitions are held from time to time.. 

I don't think they are published in NOTAMs either,,.. perhaps that would be helpful.. 

[MyNameIsNobody]

There absolutely SHOULD be (mandated by law) controls on altitude and airspace for UAV's that fly by GPS. Little cheap hand-held devices are not the problem. You can't control them when out of sight/will lose control.

This is another failure of BIG G. Or a Master Plan. Let the market grow and when people start dying and yelling swoop in and make it all better...Instead of having better laws out in front of the "wave".

Who is "that guy"? The guy that thinks flying a drone up with GA and Commercial aircraft is a "cool" idea? Even a low information guy...the same guys that shoot lasers into an airline cabin at night...KNOWS they are breaking the law. They are wired to "not give a damn" about others. You can not rid the world of them...but you can engineer products to limit the abuse/reckless use and put chips/registration (like firearms) wannabee laws that will identify who purchased/when/where they live/what the unit is.

[N33GG]

More laws?  We already have too many laws. 

 

And do you think "that guy" who is wired to not give a damn is going to quit because we have more laws? 

[MyNameIsNobody]

Don't cry to me when someone you care about is impacted by UAV 6719N...

There NEEDS to be regulatory guidance...RULES on GPS UAV's. (Construction and Flight operations). Only someone that has a narrow band width would not agree with that.

Yes, I do "thing" that "that guy" will have less access to abuse and those that regulate have more ammo to educate and enforce.

[N201MKTurbo]

A kid at work is a quad copter geek.

When he brought his first flying machine to work I challenged him to program it to take off in the back parking lot fly around the building and land back in the same place.

So far he hasn't met the challenge. It turns out that programming even a simple flight like that is very difficult. I think he is afraid of wrecking his $1000 toy. Even the smallest error could destroy the thing while it is out of sight.

[bonal]

 I think he is afraid of wrecking his $1000 toy. Even the smallest error could destroy the thing while it is out of sight.          One can only hope

[slowflyin]

The Government will not solve this..  we need outreach.   I've copy and pasted my previous post on this issue.

 

Over half a million hobbyist drones flying----most responsibly.   I'm more concerned about the buzzards.  As pilots we are for the most part an independent, self regulating bunch of folks that in general is constantly complaining about the FAA and over regulation.   Seems like we might think "Big Brother" is the go to solution for other people just not us.   Hmmmmmm.    I've said this before, why don't we advocate recruiting these pilots (wanna be or not) into the fold.  Isn't it true through self regulation and education we have done more for aviation safety than government regulation.   Almost weekly we chime in regarding some pilot who did something stupid.  I never hear us advocating the FAA should write more regs.   I think we understand Irresponsible people do not care about laws.  Idiots flying drones in the approach path of your local airport are already breaking the law.   More, redundant laws will not fix the problem.   The fool operating his toy at the altitude that caused the incident under discussion is already liable.   I agree this was a serious event.  I just don't have any faith my government can protect me from a similar fate.  I'd much rather invite the local drone club to the next pilot meeting of my choice.  EAA, AOPA, Glider club.........

 

Adding a half a million members to AOPA couldn't hurt?  

 

Full discloser- I own an unmanned systems company.  Not hobbyist grade.  See my previous post for details.

[N33GG]

 

The Government will not solve this..  we need outreach.   I've copy and pasted my previous post on this issue.

 

Over half a million hobbyist drones flying----most responsibly.   I'm more concerned about the buzzards.  As pilots we are for the most part an independent, self regulating bunch of folks that in general is constantly complaining about the FAA and over regulation.   Seems like we might think "Big Brother" is the go to solution for other people just not us.   Hmmmmmm.    I've said this before, why don't we advocate recruiting these pilots (wanna be or not) into the fold.  Isn't it true through self regulation and education we have done more for aviation safety than government regulation.   Almost weekly we chime in regarding some pilot who did something stupid.  I never hear us advocating the FAA should write more regs.   I think we understand Irresponsible people do not care about laws.  Idiots flying drones in the approach path of your local airport are already breaking the law.   More, redundant laws will not fix the problem.   The fool operating his toy at the altitude that caused the incident under discussion is already liable.   I agree this was a serious event.  I just don't have any faith my government can protect me from a similar fate.  I'd much rather invite the local drone club to the next pilot meeting of my choice.  EAA, AOPA, Glider club.........

 

Adding a half a million members to AOPA couldn't hurt?  

 

Full discloser- I own an unmanned systems company.  Not hobbyist grade.  See my previous post for details.

 

VERY WELL STATED!  I AGREE TOTALLY!

But then again, I'm just not the guy who is fond of increasing the power of an already too large government.  That's just not me.