Short Field landing technique.

[StinkBug]

Coming up to my Commercial checkride and I know I'm gonna have to demonstrate a "short field landing" I've gotten plenty good at landing my Mooney in very little runway, but I'm still basically doing normal landings. Today I went up with my CFI and he told me to show him a short field landing on the numbers. When I got there I still had a little speed left and was a little over a foot off the ground in ground effect. He was telling me to put it down, but I knew if I eased off the back pressure any I'd come down on the nose gear and bounce. As it was I ended up coming down flat and somewhat firm. 

 

I remember doing these in the Cherokee and 172, but the Mooney just floats so much more that it's hard to drop it "right now", add to that the flaps that don't allow you to steepen things up without gaining speed and I'm just having a hard time figuring out how I'm supposed to do this to PTS standards. I know it can be done, I just don't know how.

 

Any help?

[ryoder]

I agree. The standard 172 short field required a hard set down according to my cfi. That won't work on the Mooney without a bounce.

[Hank]

Full flaps, 1.2 Vso for your actual weight. That's all I know.

I reduce my speed on short final by 5 mph for every 300 lbs I am below gross. Take into account passengers, approx. baggage and fuel. You do dip your tanks before each flight, right?

Other than that, all I can think of is practice, and hope for some wind on your checkride. It's much more difficult for me to have a good landing when it's dead calm . . . But maybe that's just me.

[StinkBug]

I'm anal retentive about dipping my tanks, and I can make very good landings all day long, but not the kind of "short field" landings that were trained in primary. 

 

That said I almost never use more than 1000' of actual runway surface, I just touch down at the 1000' marks and turn off at the 2000.

[kmyfm20s]

Knock 5 kts of your airspeed and raise your flaps as soon as you hit ground effect just before the numbers. It will set right down where you want it.

[philiplane]

It's all about airspeed. If you float, you are too fast.

 

You'll need to knock 5 knots off your over the fence speed. You'll have the correct speed when you can plant it on a runway stripe (120' long) with no bounce.

[Hank]

When I'm having a good day, I'll flare over one stripe and touch down on the next. Raising flaps in the flare will certainly set you down quickly! Did that once floating halfway down a 2000' grass strip, towards the obstructed end. Hit the button, plane sat down. Right then!

Be careful trying this, and I certainly cannot recommend it until 1-2' agl over the spot you want to touch down.

[Shadrach]

A true short field is 1.1 x Vso maintaining airspeed with pitch (steep descent, wing unloaded) transition from descent directly to aggressive flare (no round out).  If the yoke is not fully aft at touch down you've left performance on the table. It may take a touch of power to maintain glide path.  The thing about a true short field is that it uses ground effect to arrest the descent, without ground effect the plane would hit harder.   Not for the faint of heart.  My POH basically says a to drag it in under power (chop and drop).  I think that this is a sub optimal technique.  However, I think for the commercial you need to do whatever the POH advises.

[Cruiser]

in the Mooney I think the method has to change from your normal approach 1.3 Vso (or higher) to a more pronounced slower speed control (no gliding). When you reduce the speed to 1.1 or 1.2 Vso during the approach the AoA is increased and there will not be enough energy to stop the descent with the flare (induced drag will be near maximum). The plane will continue to drop right into the runway but it will not bounce. You have to carrying more power to maintain this configuration (back side of the power curve) Keep the power in to maintain the stable approach all the way to the flare (if you pull the power you will drop like a rock). When you flare it will set down on the runway, pull the power out and roll to a stop.

 

Try this at altitude first to get a feel for how the plane is going to react. You will feel the P-factor and rudder input will be critical to coordinated control. With this high AoA a full power go around will pitch the nose up in a severe (stall) attitude. You will need significant forward yoke pressure until you can trim down.

Be very, very careful. 

[jlunseth]

Short field should be done with full flaps and low speed. There were two tricks that worked for me, ok maybe three. First, aim a little short. Not a lot short, but aim to put it in the grass in front of the runway, not on the runway. Right at the end you will want to raise the nose a little to make that last few feet to the runway, that will do the trick and will also very quickly take off a little airspeed and it will settle on the runway. The setup is to use a flat approach rather than coming down the standard glideslope. In my plane, if I come down the standard glideslope, I will always have too much speed at the end and will float. That is two of the tricks.

To meet the PTS as I recall you must touch down minus zero plus 200 feet of a chosen spot. If you are just a little long and need to get down just a few feet, you can use a maneuver I call the "Fred" manuever (from Fred Nauer, Hall of Fame CFI), who taught it to me. Relax the yoke and drop the nose. Now, I know what you are going to say, that will lead to a porpoise, but it does not need to because the other part of the maneuver, once you have lost those few feet, is to pick the nose up again right before you touch down on the mains. Works like a charm to hit that narrow spot required by the PTS. This does not work if you are ten feet high. It works if you are just a little high and are going to float past the maximum point.

Good luck.

[OBX-Pilot]

I would highly recommend you get a copy of the Practical Test Standard for this flight test. There was a time when they were more or less "suggestions". They now define what must be accomplished. 

 

Task F: Short-Field Approach (Confined Area—ASES) and Landing (ASEL and ASES) References: FAA-H-8083-3, FAA-H-8083-23; POH/AFM. Objective: To determine that the applicant:

1. Exhibits satisfactory knowledge of the elements related to a short-field (confined area ASES) approach and landing.

2. Adequately surveys the intended landing area (ASES).

3. Considers the wind conditions, landing surface, obstructions, and selects the most suitable touchdown point.

4. Establishes the recommended approach and landing configuration and airspeed; adjusts pitch attitude and power.

5. Maintains a stabilized approach and recommended approach airspeed, or in its absence, not more than 1.3 VSO, ±5 knots, with wind gust factor applied.

6. Makes smooth, timely, and correct control application during the round out and touchdown.

7. Selects the proper landing path, contacts the water at the minimum safe airspeed with the proper pitch attitude for the surface conditions (ASES).

8. Touches down smoothly at minimum control airspeed (ASEL).

9. Touches down within the available runway or water landing area, at or within 100 feet beyond a specified point, with no side drift, minimum float, and with the airplane’s longitudinal axis aligned with and over the runway center/landing path.

10. Maintains crosswind correction and directional control throughout the approach and landing sequence.

11. Applies brakes (ASEL), or elevator control (ASES), as necessary, to stop in the shortest distance consistent with safety.

12. Utilizes after landing runway incursion avoidance procedures.

13. Completes appropriate checklist.

 

The above is the long and short of it. What I did when I took my ride back in the stone age is irrelevant. 

[N201MKTurbo]

The most important thing is the spot landing.

Practice on something like distance marking or a taxiway. When you get good at that go for the numbers. When you get good, it won't be hitting the numbers, it will be hitting the leading edge of the numbers.

When you get so you can hit your spot +- 10 feet, your short field landings will be easy.

[kmyfm20s]

If you want to have a good laugh go out and do a landing in a 172 after you get your short field down in your Mooney. I did a BFR in a 172 a couple of years ago for the fun of it and after the landing my instructor and I just started laughing on how short the ground roll was. It was like a gymnist sticking their dismount and not budging, a perfect 10.

[StinkBug]

..........  However, I think for the commercial you need to do whatever the POH advises.

If only my plane had one of those. I have an owners manual, and it mentions short field landings exactly nowhere. It's pretty comical how much isn't in there. The entire "emergency procedures" section is only one page and half of it is about electric gear that I dont have, the other half is about the PC system.

 

I would highly recommend you get a copy of the Practical Test Standard for this flight test. There was a time when they were more or less "suggestions". They now define what must be accomplished. 

 

I have a nice bound copy of the PTS, but knowing the test standards doesn't actually tell you much about performing the maneuver, just the parameters it must meet to pass. 

 

 

The most important thing is the spot landing.

Practice on something like distance marking or a taxiway. When you get good at that go for the numbers. When you get good, it won't be hitting the numbers, it will be hitting the leading edge of the numbers.

When you get so you can hit your spot +- 10 feet, your short field landings will be easy.

 

I just went back out and tried a few more, slowed it down more and changed up the attitude a bit. I'm getting better, but probably need a few more to consistently be able to hit the same spot every time. The other thing is that I know the examiner is going to be the one picking the spot, and it will probably not be at this airport, so I'm gonna need a bit more practice hitting different spots and using different references.

 

Thanks!

[carusoam]

How well is your stall warning working?

Is it part of your pre-flight?

Best regards,

-a-

[OBX-Pilot]

Also here is an explanation of the PTS for short field by an examiner writing for AOPAs Flight Training ...  http://flighttraining.aopa.org/students/maneuvers/skills/shortapproach.html  

[Super Dave]

 

I have a nice bound copy of the PTS, but knowing the test standards doesn't actually tell you much about performing the maneuver, just the parameters it must meet to pass. 

 

 

 

 

The PTS also makes reference to FAA-H-8083-3, otherwise known as the Airplane Flying Handbook. This is where you will find the "how to" for short field landings and all of the other maneuvers that you will be required to demonstrate.

[carusoam]

Government books may be free to download.....

http://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aviation/aviation_instructors_handbook/media/faa-h-8083-9a.pdf

Really cool iPad tricks,

-a-

[StinkBug]

How well is your stall warning working?

Is it part of your pre-flight?

Best regards,

-a-

 

 

I hear it before every flight and just before nearly every touchdown.

[Deb]

Today I went up with my CFI and he told me to show him a short field landing on the numbers. When I got there I still had a little speed left and was a little over a foot off the ground in ground effect. He was telling me to put it down, but I knew if I eased off the back pressure any I'd come down on the nose gear and bounce. As it was I ended up coming down flat and somewhat firm.

Any help?

From this description, one gets the feeling that your CFI does not know your plane as well as you do. Perhaps an hour or two with a Mooney CFI specific to your model and who does Commercial instruction would help. That said, practice at the weight you'll be taking the checkride, so you have a good feel of how the plane will handle once in ground effect. (For the power off landing, aim for the numbers and see where you land; each certerline stripe is about 120 ft from the previous one.)

For the short field landing, the examiner will probably want you 50 ft over the fence to simulate an obstacle, and will want to see a landing with no float or bounce. The rest of the technique is as described by others above. You need to be at 1.2 Vso for your weight (you'll know this from practicing stalls), full flaps and at a slightly steeper approach than for a normal landing. So pick up the nose a tad, and then add a touch more power to control sink rate on the approach. You should be just at the bottom of the power curve, but not hugely behind it. When you pick up the nose to land and reduce the power, the plane will land without float or bounce (don't be flat). The key is finding the correct pitch attitude and airspeed on final. (The examiner is looking for a stabilized approach; give yourself the full 500 ft of altitude on final to set up the approach.) I don't know what your examiner will be looking for, but the Airplane Flying Handbook recommends raising the flaps after the landing (not before). (One trick could be to use speed brakes in the flare, but that probably covers up poor technique...)

Read what Cruiser posted; a full power go around in that configuration will require a lot of right rudder, and a lot of forward pressure on the yoke until you get flaps up. Full trim up will also make this harder; find a mid position that you are comfortable with.

Note that a rejected landing is part of PTS. The tower spaced us too close to the aircraft ahead of us on our first landing, so I was able to dictate when I wanted to do the go-around. I had plenty of time to plan and execute the maneuver.

[whiskytango]

Be especially careful flying at 1.1 Vso if the winds are gusty.  Hopefully your DPE understands the risk, and delays this aspect of the checkride for another day.

[Shadrach]

1.2 Vso calculated for weight does not make for a short field landing.  You may be able to pass a commercial with that technique, but it leaves a significant amount of performance on the table.  You can use 1.2 as long as you feel comfortable, but 1.1 for the last 100ft of descent is the way to extract max performance.

 

The way to calculate stall is as follows:

 

Vso @MGW 2740lbs = 54 knots = 62mph.

1.3 x 54KTAS=70KTAS = 81mph

 

1.2 x 54KTAS=65KTAS = 75mph

 

1.1 x 54KTAS=59KTAS = 69mph

Vso at 2100lbs =

2100/2740 = 0.766
Square root of 0.766 = 0.875

0.875 x 54KTAS= 47.25KTAS = 54mph

 

1.3 x 47.25KTAS = 62KTAS = 70mph

 

1.2 x 47.25 KTAS =  57KTAS = 65mph

 

1.1 x 47.25KTAS = 52KTAS= 60mph

 

Obviously one may need to add speed to increase margins, but these are the numbers to shoot for across the threshold.

[midlifeflyer]

I think a lot of people approach short field (and especially the related "spot" landing backwards. They try to "make" the airplane land on the spot rather than "let it" land on the spot, usually giving up approach stability or potentially wheelbarrowing in the process.

Short field, like any other thing in aviation, is a learned process. When I teach it, I have the pilot set up in a short field configuration that is both stabilized and repeatable, and do some landings. Not to put it down on a spot. In these first few landings I don't care where the airplane touches down. What I want is stability of airspeed and descent rate and =observation= of the difference between the aiming point and the touchdown point to learn what the airplane does when properly set up. After a few landings learning that, it's a pretty simple thing to choose an aim point that will result in a touchdown in the chosen location, with fairly small adjustments for wind conditions, density altitude, etc.

[StinkBug]

For the short field landing, the examiner will probably want you 50 ft over the fence to simulate an obstacle, and will want to see a landing with no float or bounce. The rest of the technique is as described by others above. You need to be at 1.2 Vso for your weight (you'll know this from practicing stalls), full flaps and at a slightly steeper approach than for a normal landing. So pick up the nose a tad, and then add a touch more power to control sink rate on the approach. You should be just at the bottom of the power curve, but not hugely behind it. When you pick up the nose to land and reduce the power, the plane will land without float or bounce (don't be flat). The key is finding the correct pitch attitude and airspeed on final. (The examiner is looking for a stabilized approach; give yourself the full 500 ft of altitude on final to set up the approach.) I don't know what your examiner will be looking for, but the Airplane Flying Handbook recommends raising the flaps after the landing (not before). (One trick could be to use speed brakes in the flare, but that probably covers up poor technique...)

 

 

Thanks! That's the kinda thing I was looking for. When I did this in the cherokee you could pretty much dive for the numbers without gaining much airspeed, then arrest it in the flare a plop it on the target. The Mooney not so much, mainly because it wont stay slow. I've been going over this in my head quite a bit and am starting to see how that technique isn't even right to begin with. 

 

I think a lot of people approach short field (and especially the related "spot" landing backwards. They try to "make" the airplane land on the spot rather than "let it" land on the spot, usually giving up approach stability or potentially wheelbarrowing in the process.

Short field, like any other thing in aviation, is a learned process. When I teach it, I have the pilot set up in a short field configuration that is both stabilized and repeatable, and do some landings. Not to put it down on a spot. In these first few landings I don't care where the airplane touches down. What I want is stability of airspeed and descent rate and =observation= of the difference between the aiming point and the touchdown point to learn what the airplane does when properly set up. After a few landings learning that, it's a pretty simple thing to choose an aim point that will result in a touchdown in the chosen location, with fairly small adjustments for wind conditions, density altitude, etc.

 

Another really good point. I've been working on putting it on a target, and getting frustrated by not hitting that target. Like you say, that's probably doing it backwards. I love doing power off 180s and do them often for fun, so I've observed how the plane reacts and can now put it on a spot pretty much every time. I need to go do some observing of the short field, and quit trying to force it I think.

[Andy95W]

1.2 Vso calculated for weight does not make for a short field landing.  You may be able to pass a commercial with that technique, but it leaves a significant amount of performance on the table.  You can use 1.2 as long as you feel comfortable, but 1.1 for the last 100ft of descent is the way to extract max performance.

 

The way to calculate stall is as follows:

 

Vso @MGW 2740lbs = 54 knots = 62mph.

1.3 x 54KTAS=70KTAS = 81mph

 

1.2 x 54KTAS=65KTAS = 75mph

 

1.1 x 54KTAS=59KTAS = 69mph

Vso at 2100lbs =

2100/2740 = 0.766

Square root of 0.766 = 0.875

0.875 x 54KTAS= 47.25KTAS = 54mph

 

1.3 x 47.25KTAS = 62KTAS = 70mph

 

1.2 x 47.25 KTAS =  57KTAS = 65mph

 

1.1 x 47.25KTAS = 52KTAS= 60mph

 

Obviously one may need to add speed to increase margins, but these are the numbers to shoot for across the threshold.

Wow. How do you find the time to do all those calculations on short final? I barely have enough brain power to double-check that the gear is down.