Conrad Posted April 29, 2015 Report Posted April 29, 2015 Aspen's software only AoA offering, calculated using a combination of accelerometers and air data, is going to be sold for 2AMUs: Is it worth it at that price? We recently had a pirep on the CYA 100, which placed its installed cost at 1AMU. For us folks whose upgrade budgets have many places to go, I'm not sure. For your extra 1AMU you are getting the following benefits over the vane based system: no extra panel space needed no shop time needed indication only shows at low speed when it is needed likely more resistant to icing indication can be easily read to take flap position into account For my money it doesn't look like it's worth it. I do like the dual indication to account for flap position. It isn't a perfect implementation but it follows the purpose of the instrument to its logical conclusion: tell the pilot exactly how to set stall based speeds and maintain a margin over stall without any need for, computations, fudge factors, or superstitions. Think though, the flaps should provide the same AoA alteration throughout the flight envelope, so it seems to me like the Aspen implementation with two pointers on the rainbow could be easily replicated by the cheapskates among us by pasting a slightly offset flaps down reference rainbow beside the CYA indicator. Quote
AndyFromCB Posted April 29, 2015 Report Posted April 29, 2015 We have an approach speed spread of what? At most 5knots? AOAs make sense on aircraft with a large potential approach speed spread, not on single engine props. I do not see how another display is going to help you turn base to final. How about keep it at 90, use less than 45 degrees on bank...Cross the numbers at anything better than 70, you're golden and you get to keep 2AMUs in your pocket... My two cents. Quote
aviatoreb Posted April 29, 2015 Report Posted April 29, 2015 We have an approach speed spread of what? At most 5knots? AOAs make sense on aircraft with a large potential approach speed spread, not on single engine props. I do not see how another display is going to help you turn base to final. How about keep it at 90, use less than 45 degrees on bank...Cross the numbers at anything better than 70, you're golden and you get to keep 2AMUs in your pocket... My two cents. Oh no - here we go again. 1 Quote
AndyFromCB Posted April 29, 2015 Report Posted April 29, 2015 Oh no - here we go again. Hey, Since we untimely death of little Timmy, we're back to rehashing the same old shit ;-) Not much new happening in aviation world... Quote
M20F Posted April 29, 2015 Report Posted April 29, 2015 But what if the plane is on a treadmill.... Quote
aviatoreb Posted April 29, 2015 Report Posted April 29, 2015 But what if the plane is on a treadmill.... OK - what next? 1 Quote
M20F Posted April 30, 2015 Report Posted April 30, 2015 OK - what next? I bet you think Oswald acted alone ;-) 1 Quote
atn_pilot Posted April 30, 2015 Report Posted April 30, 2015 We have an approach speed spread of what? At most 5knots? AOAs make sense on aircraft with a large potential approach speed spread, not on single engine props. I do not see how another display is going to help you turn base to final. How about keep it at 90, use less than 45 degrees on bank...Cross the numbers at anything better than 70, you're golden and you get to keep 2AMUs in your pocket... My two cents. Sounds like a sloppy way to fly to me. Quote
Conrad Posted April 30, 2015 Author Report Posted April 30, 2015 Must. Put. Genie. Back. In. Bottle. Quote
AndyFromCB Posted April 30, 2015 Report Posted April 30, 2015 Sounds like a sloppy way to fly to me. Works for me…75knots for regular runways, 70knots for short field, never failed me before. Have yet to land short and/or long. What's sloppy about it? I guess according to you all flying was sloppy prior to AOA indicators? 1 Quote
atn_pilot Posted April 30, 2015 Report Posted April 30, 2015 I don't have an AOA indicator, and I certainly don't think one is necessary. Hell, none of the airliners I flew had a direct indication in the cockpit of alpha. But different wights and conditions call for different speeds. A one size fits all approach is just sloppy flying, in my opinion. Quote
M20F Posted April 30, 2015 Report Posted April 30, 2015 But different wights and conditions call for different speeds. A one size fits all approach is just sloppy flying, in my opinion. Yes they do and in a 747 those numbers differ in double digits, in a single engine airplane it differs in the tenth's. Quote
atn_pilot Posted April 30, 2015 Report Posted April 30, 2015 Hyperbole much? Stall speed can vary by about 5 knots in my Mooney based on weight, and then wind additive in ANY airplane can be up to 10 knots. Hardly "tenths." Quote
carusoam Posted April 30, 2015 Report Posted April 30, 2015 Ever seen the Mooney landing video...? It comes with the various speeds and add-ons or subtract-offs in a nicely printed format... See DonKaye. Actual Mooney CFII with actual data you can use. Actual video of a Bravo doing various landings. It is a really good collection of information regarding this subject specific to our machines. If you want to add stall speeds with various flap settings and bank angles, there would be about a dozen or so data points that are required to memorized to make them useful. They are in the POH for a reason. Andy, has nicely simplified the situation to maintain a safe approach. An AOA could advise you if you are making a math, memory or other human error. New way to look at things... - spend 2AMU, live through the simple mental error you were about to make turning onto final... - feel good about saving the 2AMU, you won't be the one grieving... Quote
Conrad Posted April 30, 2015 Author Report Posted April 30, 2015 Facts: Some want one (I do), some people neither want nor need it. But it can't hurt. Better pilots than myself have died in stall related accidents. Opinion: To be valuable, all it needs do is let you know if your margins are compromised. Then in the future you don't do things that compromise your margins, and you're a better pilot with or without the instrument. Since I plan to be at this for a while, the question is which. Now where can I buy a ballistic parachute... (I'M KIDDING I'M KIDDING HELP PUT THAT PITCHFORK DOWN) 1 Quote
flyboy0681 Posted April 30, 2015 Report Posted April 30, 2015 Hey, Since we untimely death of little Timmy, we're back to rehashing the same old shit ;-) Not much new happening in aviation world... I know what you mean. I'd love to hear what Timmy's dad would have to say about the upcoming Jade Helm exercises in the southwest which is supposed to be the first military deployment in a government takeover of the entire country. Upwards of 100 million American's are supposed to be taken out by our military over the next few months. Yesterday, Texas Governor Abbott ordered the Texas National Guard to keep tabs on the operation once it commences. Don't believe me? Google it. Quote
Conrad Posted April 30, 2015 Author Report Posted April 30, 2015 A government takeover of the country? Say it's not so. Quote
flyboy0681 Posted April 30, 2015 Report Posted April 30, 2015 Taken out how? To do what? Evidently your government wants to send us all to retraining camps and those that don't comply will be shot on the spot. At least that's the official word. https://www.youtube.com/embed/NXaYNtMIGUY Quote
AndyFromCB Posted April 30, 2015 Report Posted April 30, 2015 Evidently your government wants to send us all to retraining camps and those that don't comply will be shot on the spot. At least that's the official word. https://www.youtube.com/embed/NXaYNtMIGUY Man, that Alex Jones, what an amazing man. He's been able to elude capture for years. Quote
flyboy0681 Posted April 30, 2015 Report Posted April 30, 2015 Man, that Alex Jones, what an amazing man. He's been able to elude capture for years. The actual military exercise is real and will start in July, but there are a whole lot of your fellow citizens who truly believe this is going to happen. Here is an honest to goodness example of those citizens and a town hall meeting they attended to figure out how to survive it: http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/texas-governor-abbott-orders-national-guard-military-takeover Quote
Conrad Posted April 30, 2015 Author Report Posted April 30, 2015 I suppose you could say that their angle is that they are being attacked 1 Quote
flyboy0681 Posted May 4, 2015 Report Posted May 4, 2015 More on the government's takeover of its citizens. When your government denies something, it's probably true. It's just like money and congress, if they say it's not about money, you had better believe it's about money. http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/wal-mart-jade-helm-15 Quote
flyboy0681 Posted August 4, 2015 Report Posted August 4, 2015 I know what you mean. I'd love to hear what Timmy's dad would have to say about the upcoming Jade Helm exercises in the southwest which is supposed to be the first military deployment in a government takeover of the entire country. Upwards of 100 million American's are supposed to be taken out by our military over the next few months. Yesterday, Texas Governor Abbott ordered the Texas National Guard to keep tabs on the operation once it commences. Don't believe me? Google it. The "Jade Helm 15" takeover of our country has commenced. Keep the Mooney's gassed up in case you have to evacuate on a moments notice. http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/two-men-open-fire-mississippi-military-facility Quote
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