IFR question

[dcrogers11]

While we're on the subject of IFR training, I noticed that it was reported that NDB's were being removed from the PP written.  Has anyone heard if that were the case on the IR written?

Don

[HRM]

While we're on the subject of IFR training, I noticed that it was reported that NDB's were being removed from the PP written.  Has anyone heard if that were the case on the IR written?

Don

 

It looks like the FAA lumps all training in one place, read the AOPA article on the subject here.

[Marauder]

While we're on the subject of IFR training, I noticed that it was reported that NDB's were being removed from the PP written. Has anyone heard if that were the case on the IR written?

Don

I would be surprised if they didn't. I think there is 1 NDB left in my area and one compass locator that is co-located with an ILS OM. I can't remember the last time I flew one.

[ArtVandelay]

I would be surprised if they didn't. I think there is 1 NDB left in my area and one compass locator that is co-located with an ILS OM. I can't remember the last time I flew one.

Technically they are still there, just NOTAM out, the next step is remove them from the charts and replace with a GPS waypoint

[Marauder]

Technically they are still there, just NOTAM out, the next step is remove them from the charts and replace with a GPS waypoint

I should have been more clear, only 1 NDB approach in my flying area that I have seen and the locater on the ILS at KILG. I just realized it is the same NDB serving both.

[Danb]

HRM  its the controllers here at KILG they send there malcontents and trainees here....I'Ve been to some PPP of Mooneys and some of the guys from other parts of the country have asked me if Kilg is still screwed up re. the way they have trouble handling more than one plane..even wondering if this is there last stop before being let go,..one if my buds retired from there after being a controller at KILG for yrs. and he has related quite some tales re there incompetence..

[Marauder]

HRM its the controllers here at KILG they send there malcontents and trainees here....I'Ve been to some PPP of Mooneys and some of the guys from other parts of the country have asked me if Kilg is still screwed up re. the way they have trouble handling more than one plane..even wondering if this is there last stop before being let go,..one if my buds retired from there after being a controller at KILG for yrs. and he has related quite some tales re there incompetence..

My stay there was interesting as well...

[HRM]

HRM  its the controllers here at KILG they send there malcontents and trainees here....

 

Shoot, I thought that was what KAPF was for!

[flyboy0681]

I have used fltpln go and it is pretty good. Just don't like the interface. On the trip I took this morning, Garmin Pilot did a good job of showing the route histories and will send back an ATC proposed route.

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1423342879.537087.jpg

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1423342916.141690.jpg

 

The operative word here is "proposed". More times than not, the route that Pilot send back to me bears little semblence to the one that I'm actually given.

[Marauder]

The operative word here is "proposed". More times than not, the route that Pilot send back to me bears little semblence to the one that I'm actually given.

I've been pretty lucky here with getting the proposed. Now flying what they gave me is a totally different story. I am convinced if they can work out a direct routing to get me out of their sector faster, they are going to do it.

[rbp]

ATC Handbook, Section 10: will tell you everything you need to know about radar separation: https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Order/ATC.pdf

[HRM]

ATC Handbook, Section 10: will tell you everything you need to know about radar separation: https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Order/ATC.pdf

 

This is a very important point because I think that often pilots forget, or don't know, that controllers are as controlled as we are! Additionally, just like the rules that control us are publicly available, so are their rules.

 

Frankly, we are in this thing together and the Feds Against Aviation are not the ATC controllers 

[flyboy0681]

I've been pretty lucky here with getting the proposed. Now flying what they gave me is a totally different story. I am convinced if they can work out a direct routing to get me out of their sector faster, they are going to do it.

 

I need to start getting smarter when I file and am traveling north. My base is located 15 miles south of Palm Beach Int'l and they always send me 20 to 30 miles to the west and then ultimately tell me to "proceed on course".  I suppose if the weather is clear I can transition their area VFR and then pick up my flight plan once I'm out of their airspace.

[Marauder]

I need to start getting smarter when I file and am traveling north. My base is located 15 miles south of Palm Beach Int'l and they always send me 20 to 30 miles to the west and then ultimately tell me to "proceed on course". I suppose if the weather is clear I can transition their area VFR and then pick up my flight plan once I'm out of their airspace.

I've learned to ask IFR pilots when I move into an area what is the "preferred" routing for going somewhere. I know Philly, Dover and Potomac have letters of agreement between them and you just won't get what you want when flying south from here.

And the"preferred" does change. I hadn't been to New England for a few years and I saw the clearance they gave poor Bob when he came to visit.

[DrBill]

I fly at an uncontrolled field so if its VFR ATC expects me to take off, climb to 2000 if able (clouds) and get my clearance.  If ceiling is below VFR minimums they accept my call via cell phone, give me squak code, void time and initial heading and altitude (always 090 to 3000 from my airport).  I take off and call in . Works great.

Bill

[midlifeflyer]

The operative word here is "proposed". More times than not, the route that Pilot send back to me bears little semblence to the one that I'm actually given.

I have a feeling the likelihood of the "proposed" or "expected" route being the actual clearance is geography-specific, with busier airspace being more likely to have traffic issues crop up that make changes more likely.

 

On my recent trip to Florida, I received expected route notifications for all 5 flights. There were changes in two There was a significant one when leaving KFXE for KZPH, probably due more to Tampa traffic than Lauderdale/Miami (based on where the difference was). And a minor one leaving KZPH probably for the same reason.  OTOH, the only change I  have received in two years flying around the Carolinas was one that changed from a routing that skirted around restricted airspace to a direct routing through the restricted airspace. Can't complain about that one!

[midlifeflyer]

I need to start getting smarter when I file and am traveling north. My base is located 15 miles south of Palm Beach Int'l and they always send me 20 to 30 miles to the west and then ultimately tell me to "proceed on course".  I suppose if the weather is clear I can transition their area VFR and then pick up my flight plan once I'm out of their airspace.

 

It's been a few years but every time I flew from KBCT to KLEE (my in-laws lived in the Villages at one time) the routing was exactly the same - the same routing as the Goofy STAR, although the STAR wasn't assigned by name.

[ArtVandelay]

I need to start getting smarter when I file and am traveling north. My base is located 15 miles south of Palm Beach Int'l and they always send me 20 to 30 miles to the west and then ultimately tell me to "proceed on course". I suppose if the weather is clear I can transition their area VFR and then pick up my flight plan once I'm out of their airspace.

Yea, I don't know why they do that, since most of the time we are landing on a eastern runway I would think north and south traffic directly overhead would be desirable

With Orlando in the middle they don't have a problem with coastal route after you get above PBI

[ArtVandelay]

I fly at an uncontrolled field so if its VFR ATC expects me to take off, climb to 2000 if able (clouds) and get my clearance. If ceiling is below VFR minimums they accept my call via cell phone, give me squak code, void time and initial heading and altitude (always 090 to 3000 from my airport). I take off and call in . Works great.

Bill

Do you call ATC directly or use wx brief?

[Marauder]

Do you call ATC directly or use wx brief?

I think it depends where you are at. There is an RCO at my home airport that sucks some of the time. I finally got the Philly Approach telephone number and have been calling them direct. At the airport close to my daughter, they have a GCO which is kind of a hybrid between an RCO and a telephone call.

I have tried using Lockheed a couple of times but sometimes it was easier to take off and pick it up in the air.

[midlifeflyer]

I think it depends where you are at. There is an RCO at my home airport that sucks some of the time. I finally got the Philly Approach telephone number and have been calling them direct. At the airport close to my daughter, they have a GCO which is kind of a hybrid between an RCO and a telephone call.

I have tried using Lockheed a couple of times but sometimes it was easier to take off and pick it up in the air.

 

Yep, as you said there are those where you can reach the controlling ATC authority by radio on the ground. Liberal, KS is another example. And still others that have a dedicated  CD facility, like Loveland/Ft Collins in Colorado.

 

There are more things in heaven and earth...Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.  

[John Pleisse]

There is a lot of discussion on this thread about being on an IFR flight plan while in good weather and the like. If you are concerned about blowing through a fix or messing up, this is exactly how to do it. You file in good weather and go, then you are lulled into VFR complacency and behaviors..... looking out the window and not following IFR rules to the letter. When I am in the soup, I usually don't make big mistakes. When I am on an IFR flight plan, but basically in VFR conditions, this is when I make big errors or do boneheaded stuff, mostly procedural.

[jlunseth]

Don't know if someone has said this, but you don't "take off into an IFR flight plan."  You must always have a clearance from ATC.  If the ceiling is high enough, you can sometimes takeoff VFR, call ATC on the air and get your clearance that way.  If the ceiling is too low, as has been mentioned, you must always get a clearance either through the GCO or by cell phone.  The national clearance phone number is 1-888-766-8267 .  The Bose headsets with a bluetooth connection that allow you to make the call using your aircraft headset, are invaluable for getting phone clearances at remote airports. 

 

The phone clearance is going to be a little different by the way.  They will say something like:  "It is now 1822 Zulu.  Clearance void if not off by 1827 and report to ATC by 1832 if not off."  They will want you to read that back with the rest of the clearance.

 

At towered airports you can get the clearance through Ground or sometimes a Clearance Delivery channel.  At the Bravos, they will typically only give you the clearance through a specific Clearance Delivery channel.

 

But the point is, you are never IFR until you have that clearance.

 

Well, technically there are a few instances where you might be in G airspace for a very limited time and be IFR, but to leave the G you are going to need that clearance.  Best to always get it before leaving the ground unless you are able to takeoff VFR and reach ATC before reaching the clag.

[midlifeflyer]

There is a lot of discussion on this thread about being on an IFR flight plan while in good weather and the like. If you are concerned about blowing through a fix or messing up, this is exactly how to do it. You file in good weather and go, then you are lulled into VFR complacency and behaviors..... looking out the window and not following IFR rules to the letter. When I am in the soup, I usually don't make big mistakes. When I am on an IFR flight plan, but basically in VFR conditions, this is when I make big errors or do boneheaded stuff, mostly procedural.

 

That kind of laxness can happen to anyone. That's up to us and our attitude and planning. Being in the soup doesn't guarantee anything. Not a particularly good statistical sample but all of the IFR separation violations I've been directly involved with were in the soup.

 

OTOH, filing IFR even in severe clear conditions has the benefit of keeping us current on many procedural aspects of IFR flight.  The system doesn't care about whether we are in the soup or not and "I have an amended clearance, advise when ready to copy" along with some new fix you never heard of, is as likely in CAVU conditions as in the soup. 

 

Balance is a good thing

[John Pleisse]

That kind of laxness can happen to anyone. That's up to us and our attitude and planning. Being in the soup doesn't guarantee anything. Not a particularly good statistical sample but all of the IFR separation violations I've been directly involved with were in the soup.

 

OTOH, filing IFR even in severe clear conditions has the benefit of keeping us current on many procedural aspects of IFR flight.  The system doesn't care about whether we are in the soup or not and "I have an amended clearance, advise when ready to copy" along with some new fix you never heard of, is as likely in CAVU conditions as in the soup. 

 

Balance is a good thing

 

 

The context is an IFR candidate or newly minted rating. Sure, it is great to file just to stay in the system for procedural currency, but as is often typical, one may have 270 hours of one habit and only 70 hours of another, newer habit.