Mooney expert on c models

[Andy95W]

Fixed cowl flaps started in 1968 according to my reference book "Those Remarkable Mooneys".

[carusoam]

My 65C converted it's cowl flaps to stationary ones on it's own...

For financial protection, it is best to understand the details of the pre-purchase inspection.

It is a personal decision of how much and who should do it and what else can come out of it.

There are a few sob stories of people who bought something they wish they had known about to negotiate better.

Don't let it happen without you knowing about it....

For a good example find the thread F the FAA?... The title says enough...

Don't accidently be that guy.

Know you are buying an antique that you intend to fly in. They aren't magic carpets until they are proven so...

This is not intended to throw water on your dream plane.

Best regards,

-a-

[Herk]

carusoam

I understand and will be looking hard at this one. An inspection is a MUST. I would also like to bore scope the cyliners in addition of looking for Corrosion and other gotchas. Its older C at 1963 and is originally a D model that was converted to a C model. I do know and understand older airplanes as I own a Stinson as well but this would be a traveling machine for us. I am looking for a good solid aircraft that can handle two pax and maybe three in a pinch. 

 

My worries are the unknowns that i look to vet through pilot and owners on this board.

 

I plan on speaking to a MSC tomorrow for assistance as well. I have downloaded the prebuy list form LASAR as well.

 

This is a stock C model that will likely be sort of a project as well. I am just looking to get the big issues covered on it and get educated. It will need some panel work, Interior work and eventually an engine overhaul. 

[carusoam]

Engine

Prop

Paint

Fuel tank seal

Corrosion

Corroded or cracked spars.

Instruments

Radios

Nose wheel dents in structure from misuse

Interior

There are few recent ADs. The last that I recall were...

Aileron control rods, reinforcements.

Oil pump gears, aluminum gear.

Prop hubs cracks.

Things off the top of my old memory.

PPI by Mooney specific shop is recommended. This list is not complete.

A simple omission can be very expensive...

My C was a great machine for the decade I had her. It has flown as far as my O...

Just took more time and stops along the way.

Good news. The Mooney factory is alive and well at this time!

One question...

How is a Stinson for a similar PPI?

Finding a local (flying distance) Stinson shop must be significantly more challenging,

Best regards,

-a-

[MB65E]

My short list on a few prior m20's include...

Pull the back seat out and look in the inspection plates in the seat pan. Looking for the corrosion in the lower web of the spar.

Pull at least the lower kick panels on the interior side wing root area. Check the steel tubes there and around the window frame for corrosion.These two spots are where the monsters live.

Lower engine mount cracks in the tubes are hard to spot. Corrosion in the wheel well area. Popped rivets inboard lower spar at the bottom of the tanks. Maybe actually check the rigging of the landing gear per the MM. Not just do a few gear swings.

The prop's "B" hub AD applies to the SN not the Dash number that's in the prop model suffex. The -1BF hub, is not necessary a "B" hub!!

Also make sure the engine has been apart in the last 25 years.

Let us know!

-Matt

[lahso]

Herk, I'm a C owner in Chattanooga, TN. Joey Cole does my maintenance, and I can highly recommend him. Also, Gann in Lafayette, GA (9A5) does work on Mooneys as well. Though not a MSC, Gann does great engine work.

[Herk]

HI all great stuff!

 

LOL on the Stinson. The PPI for a Stinson has some gotchas as well. Corrosion is one of the top ones. The Stinson does not share as many AD's though. Its a very simple and rugged bird. Comfortable too! Just a bit slow. You can't be in a rush.

 

Thank you and I will contact some shops in the Seller's area tomorrow.

[carusoam]

Most of the ADs are simple and far history if handled properly...

A simple welded tube, a steel gear, and the right serial number.

But the removal and re installation can be expensive.

Things that should not become your cost if you do the PPI properly.

Expect / ask your PPI to be broken down into sections....

Air Worthiness items.

And non-AW items.

If you write a purchasing agreement....

It is proper to include all AW items in the sales price.

You are buying a plane to fly, right? It needs to be in AW condition.

The other items that are not AW issues are nice to know about. You may want to tackle them all one at a time when money allows.

The PPI is about knowing what you are buying before you buy it.

The PA is the doc that puts it all in writing, your hand writing if needed...

Focus on all things AW. You are not negotiating a new plane for $30k...

Best regards,

-a-

Keep in mind I am only a PP. My experience is from owning a Mooney or two...nothing more.

[Andy95W]

My short list on a few prior m20's include...

Pull the back seat out and look in the inspection plates in the seat pan. Looking for the corrosion in the lower web of the spar.

WHILE BACK THERE, PUT AN EYEBALL TO THE STUB SPAR. THIS IS THE ACTUAL REAR SPAR OF THE WING AND IS JUST AFT OF THE BACK SEAT AND THE FORWARD EDGE OF THE BAGGAGE COMPARTMENT. IT IS ALSO THE REAR SUPPORT FOR THE MAIN GEAR. CHECK BOTH SIDES OF THE STUB SPAR FOR CORROSION, ESPECIALLY TOWARD THE CENTER OF THE FUSELAGE.

Pull at least the lower kick panels on the interior side wing root area. Check the steel tubes there and around the window frame for corrosion.These two spots are where the monsters live. EXCELLENT ADVICE.

Lower engine mount cracks in the tubes are hard to spot. THERE IS AN AD TO WELD WEBBED SUPPORTS TO THE ENGINE MOUNT THAT IS A TERMINATING ACTION, OTHERWISE A REPETITIVE INSPECTION. IF NOT DONE, TRY TO KNOCK OFF $500.

Corrosion in the wheel well area. SEE ABOVE COMMENT ABOUT THE STUB SPAR.

-Matt

Good list. I've added some additional comments in CAPS above.

Also, there is an AD on the aileron push rods in the belly. There are welds that can be done that is a terminating action, like the engine mount. If not done, try to knock off $500.

Another place to look for corrosion is in the tail. Easy access through a panel in the side. Look especially at the extruded 'L' brackets that run down both sides.

[DonMuncy]

Mike Busch has an excellent webinar on PPIs, which I heartily agree with.

If I were having one done, I would have the inspector first look at both the aluminum and steel tubes for corrosion. If he finds any, the inspection is over, I kill the deal and the cost was not too bad.

Next borescope the engine and take enough apart to look at the camshaft. If the engine has serious problems, renegotiate the deal to pay for a new engine.

Next closely examine the fuel tanks for leakage. This is an expensive problem if found, but would only require an new price point.

Then check all the ADs. Lack of compliance on these can get pretty expensive pretty fast.

Next would be nosegear and donuts.

It all is good at this point I would probably ask to turn the inspection into an annual.

This is off the top of my head, so I may be missing some pretty important things, but if your inspection misses a bad alternator. or some other 1to 2 AMU problem (and I suspect most inspections will probably miss something), you say dammit and go on. But if it misses corrosion, a failing engine or tanks that need resealing, you have ruined your entire day.

[mooniac15u]

What's the tail number for the plane you're looking at? Someone here may be familiar with it.

[Bob_Belville]

The year model would help. The Cs evolved a bit from their introduction in 1962 to the last ones were built in 1978.

[Andy95W]

Bob- Herk said it was a 1963 that was actually a converted M20D.

[Herk]

1395W that is correct