Intake boot (Servo intake duct) replacement

[hicksa10]

My M-20F is in for Annual Inspection, and the flexible intake boot (black, metallisized rubber) needs replacement. 

Engine is LYC  IO360-A1A.

Mooney quote for new is $298.50.

Any ideas for cheaper replacement?

thanks, raymond

[N7186V]

Is that for the Ram air boot? If so, I had to do that last year and if I remember correctly, that is about $20 cheaper than I got mine, unfortunately. The 4-hole pattern will need to be punched into it when you receive it.

[N201MKTurbo]

Fix with black RTV and fiberglass cloth.

[Marauder]

Unfortunately, that is the price. I replaced mine back around the turn of the century for a lot less.

[N7186V]

Fix with black RTV and fiberglass cloth.

That's how mine was fixed when I bought the plane. The new IA wouldn't accept that fix and made me replace it.

[N201MKTurbo]

You have to do a good enough job that he cannot tell it has been fixed. As long as it doesn't leak and no parts are going to come off and get sucked into the engine, what is the harm? But in this day and age any IA who works for a shop of any size can't risk the liability. Its only money!

[DrBill]

I fixed mine last year with black RTV and long threads from a pair of worn jeans. Take your time and it  comes out like new.   I think it gets torn when the A&P takes off the lower cowl without removing the boot FIRST !.  I'll see if I can find some pictures of my "repair".

I did buy a new one first from Mooney..

BILL

[Guest]

Let me get this right, engine worth $ 20-25000, cylinders worth $15-2500, intake boot which keeps dirt out of both is worth $ 2-300.

Clarence

[carusoam]

It used to be unavailable at any price.

Best regards,

-a-

[Guest]

I have alway been able to get one for my stock from Mooney. Sometimes they had to order them from their supplier, but I could always get one.

Clarence

[garytex]

GeeBee built a prototype of one out of red Silacon and better material. It's built like a brick shit house. He builds lots of aftermarket parts and parts kits across the GA industry and is incredibly knowledgeable. Additionally he is well known within the bonanza community as a supplier of much much better flexible tubes used on the bonanzas. I talked to him for about an hour and he is almost OCD about the minutia of parts quality and gets really offended about price gouging, poor quality. Our kind of guy.

He's not going to tool up without I think he said 50 orders. I talked to him a couple of months ago when my three-year-old boot had some tears.

We ought to do a group buy. Maybe somebody with a little time could call some of the major suppliers and get some additional promises from folks on the site and make it happen. I think it's a very viable project the only reason I'm not doing it is because I'm at that stage in my life where I have to run faster and faster every day just to stay in the same place. To anyone who would consider helping us with this project just imagine yourself carried electronically on the shoulders of all of the appreciative Mooney owners who would be saved from what truly is a despicable part situation. Hip Hip hooray!

Economically it makes sense to cough up the money for one now even if your boot is not torn now to buy one of these because the next time you go in for annual your boot IS going to be torn. And the new boot is going to last 2,3 maybe four times longer than the POS we have to use now.

So the well made part will save $750 to 1,000 in a couple or three years. Additionally having one in your hot little hands is nice because these are typically in short supply and sometimes it's very difficult to find one.

I'd rather spend my money on gas then a technologically outdated, poorly built part complete with monopolistic pricing and inappropriate profit margin.

[N201MKTurbo]

Don't you think you are blowing this a little out of proportion.

 

I owned an M20F for 19 years. I replaced the boot once. It wasn't the big price driver in my maintenance budget.

 

Of course the last one I bought was in the 90s and I think I paid $135 for it.

[garytex]

No, this is a maintenance issue with real dollar consequences, The new ones are total POS. When I purchased my F three years ago it had a torn boot. Dugosh had one only in stock and it looked like a piece of crap and I was offended that it was $300. The damn thing had torn and had to be repaired my last annual. That's $100 a year for the damn thing, and I could've spent that money on whiskey, cigars and wild wild women instead.

[garytex]

The other thing is can be collateral engine damage when the boot is torn. Unfiltered air comes in through the holes. I can't remember which of the engine manufacturer said it but the statement was "one teaspoonful of dirt trashes an engine". And a big enough piece of the boot getting sucked into the engine could cause stoppage although that does not seem to have been happening.

[Alan Fox]

If you are worried about unfiltered air , then you better never use the ram air.....A piece of the boot running through the engine will not hurt anything.......  These are not space shuttles we are flying.......Geez

[jetdriven]

GeeBee built a prototype of one out of red Silacon and better material. It's built like a brick shit house. He builds lots of aftermarket parts and parts kits across the GA industry and is incredibly knowledgeable. Additionally he is well known within the bonanza community as a supplier of much much better flexible tubes used on the bonanzas. I talked to him for about an hour and he is almost OCD about the minutia of parts quality and gets really offended about price gouging, poor quality. Our kind of guy.

He's not going to tool up without I think he said 50 orders. I talked to him a couple of months ago when my three-year-old boot had some tears.

We ought to do a group buy. Maybe somebody with a little time could call some of the major suppliers and get some additional promises from folks on the site and make it happen. I think it's a very viable project the only reason I'm not doing it is because I'm at that stage in my life where I have to run faster and faster every day just to stay in the same place. To anyone who would consider helping us with this project just imagine yourself carried electronically on the shoulders of all of the appreciative Mooney owners who would be saved from what truly is a despicable part situation. Hip Hip hooray!

Economically it makes sense to cough up the money for one now even if your boot is not torn now to buy one of these because the next time you go in for annual your boot IS going to be torn. And the new boot is going to last 2,3 maybe four times longer than the POS we have to use now.

So the well made part will save $750 to 1,000 in a couple or three years. Additionally having one in your hot little hands is nice because these are typically in short supply and sometimes it's very difficult to find one.

I'd rather spend my money on gas then a technologically outdated, poorly built part complete with monopolistic pricing and inappropriate profit margin.

 

I arranged him a group buy of 39 Mooney owners for a silicone door seal and baggage seal, only to have the whole thing collapse because he wanted me to buy him a factory baggage door seal to copy. 7 grand of business goes away because of 110$.  C'est la Vie.

[1964-M20E]

No, this is a maintenance issue with real dollar consequences, The new ones are total POS. When I purchased my F three years ago it had a torn boot. Dugosh had one only in stock and it looked like a piece of crap and I was offended that it was $300. The damn thing had torn and had to be repaired my last annual. That's $100 a year for the damn thing, and I could've spent that money on whiskey, cigars and wild wild women instead.

Not a big fan of the cost of the boot but $100 whiskey Good   , $100 Cigars good $100 women ????

[garytex]

Ram air only open at altitude.  Boot tear is open on the ground.  I have noticed dirt and grit on the bottom of the cowl right next to the boot. Seems to me that when you open up the throttle on TO that it stirs up the dust right when the pressure delta between ambient and inside the induction system is highest.  I think there is plenty of opportunity for dirt to get in.

[garytex]

Jetdriven: Crap, thats stupid, and disappointing to hear.  I really want a better boot, and wouldn't know where else to look.

[Ned Gravel]

OK.  So that is where it all went.  

[Alan Fox]

Perhaps from experience he realized that if a group of 39 buyers wouldn't come up with 110.00 , there was not 7K worth of business to follow.... Seems like a pretty simple equation.... and a smart decision...

[Marauder]

Perhaps from experience he realized that if a group of 39 buyers wouldn't come up with 110.00 , there was not 7K worth of business to follow.... Seems like a pretty simple equation.... and a smart decision...

That's one way to look at it. You can also say that the $110 was R&D costs for his business (although taking someone else's design to copy is not really R&D) to bring the product to market. That amounts to $3 and change per person he could have charged.

I suspect he probably couldn't or didn't want to make it and this was a way for him to back out of the group buy.

[HRM]

Let me get this right, engine worth $ 20-25000, cylinders worth $15-2500, intake boot which keeps dirt out of both is worth $ 2-300.

Clarence

 

Excellent reasoning. Mine was replaced last annual and I think it finally gave up the ghost when the fuel servo was replaced. Anyway, I am working hard to join the UFO and will probably fold my wings shortly after that. Given that the first boot lasted almost 50 years, I figure this new one will outlast me. 

[1964-M20E]

That's one way to look at it. You can also say that the $110 was R&D costs for his business (although taking someone else's design to copy is not really R&D) to bring the product to market. That amounts to $3 and change per person he could have charged.

I suspect he probably couldn't or didn't want to make it and this was a way for him to back out of the group buy.

More likely a lawyer got a hold of him and put the fear of litigation in his soul.

[DaV8or]

The real danger with the torn boot is not unfiltered air. The original style boot is friable when torn and if a small piece of it breaks off and finds it's way to the impact tubes in the fuel servo, my understanding is, you are looking for a place to land. Two different MSCs told me this. It is a statistical improbability, but a possibility none the less.

 

I had an old torn boot that had been carefully patched by somebody in the past with black RTV silicone. When they became available from the factory again, I held my nose and bought one of the $300 POS. By the way, no need to drill any holes. Mine came pre drilled and fit perfectly.