Leaning for High Altitude Take off

[ArtVandelay]

However what is the target EGT ? I haver heard it referred to but what actually is the value or how do I determine it for my C model with O 360 engine?

Thanks to my Insight G1 monitor, I can see both EGT and CHT.

Cheers

Norbert

Once you know what your peak EGTs are, then lean only enough to get to -150 less, that should be close to maximum power but rich enough to avoid detonation. Your EGTs somewhat depend on the installation of the probes, so some might peak at 1500, others 1450, so find your number...I use that on climbs as well and lean as I climb.

[Hank]

However what is the target EGT ? I haver heard it referred to but what actually is the value or how do I determine it for my C model with O 360 engine?

Thanks to my Insight G1 monitor, I can see both EGT and CHT.

Cheers

Norbert

Takeoff close to standard temp & pressure at sea level, full rich. Rotate, clean up and look at your EGT. This is your Target EGT.

When departing on warmer days, or higher elevation, lean to the Target EGT and things will be fine. Climb to altitude, level off, accelerate, set power as lean per your normal process.

It works for my C when I remember. If I don't, EGT will often be ~1200°F by the time I hit 7000-8000 msl, sometimes even lower. You will need to occasionally adjust mixture leaner during the climb, depending on how high you start and how high you climb.

[drapo]

You ever look out the window during takeoff roll for a CRJ700? I swear, those things don't get airborne until the last brick...

Rolls greater than 2000' tend to get me wondering in the mooney, too

 

Some pilots came to our refresher training to talk about the way they now operate their planes in those "Fuel saving is everything" days.

 

Lots of attention is paid to details to save fuel and amongst them, they don't use full power on take-off anymore, unless some special conditions forces them to. As my tower counterparts told me, take-off runs are getting longer and longer...

[rbp]

remember FULL RICH in any altitude engine (eg TLS/Bravo). an altitude engine thinks its at sea level until it gets to critical altitude.

[Wakeup]

Great topic! I just got back from sking in Jackson Hole today and I was thinking how would I manage my engine at a high Elavation. How do older Mooneys fair in high elevations? Thanks. Troy

[gsxrpilot]

While not extremely high, I flew my C out of KABQ last summer. KABQ is 5355' but on a warm summer day at 1300 hours the ATIS was reporting density altitude of 7400'.  We were full fuel and about 400lbs people/baggage. We did use more runway than I'm used to, but other than that, it was uneventful. We departed to the east and without any turns, were crossing the mountains just to the east at 9000'.

 

I was leaned to about 1200 EGT on takeoff.

[chrisk]

Took of from Leadville with a DA of 12,600. Position at very end of runway, stand on the brakes, full throttle, normally my target is 1270-1290egt at full rich at sea level so I leaned until I hit 1270 then continued to lean to find peak which was around 1420 (normally higher at lower altitudes) so I leaned for max power which is 80 ROP, which was 1340.

Given the DA, didn't need to worry about red box. Fuel flow was around 11gph.

Long roll...30 gallons on board and 1 pax...at about 3500 ft of roll the wheels left the ground.

Just another way of doing it when a takeoff requires every ounce of power the engine will create. There is no better setting than 80rop for making power, just watch the redbox.

With a DA of 12,600, there is no danger of being  in the red box.  Your engine can not make more than 125 hp.

 

Great description of how to lean for max power on a high altitude take off.

[midlifeflyer]

Great topic! I just got back from sking in Jackson Hole today and I was thinking how would I manage my engine at a high Elavation. How do older Mooneys fair in high elevations? Thanks. Troy

Your biggest  issue is going to be your experience in high density altitude and mountain operations.  I flew a M20C for a while in Colorado and flew in and out of airports as high as 7,000 msl. I've also flown a 180 HP 172 in and out of Leadville (9934 msl). The biggest Mooney issue in general is that it's a great cruiser but not that great on the takeoff distance compared to even lower-powered aircraft.

[midlifeflyer]

 

Great description of how to lean for max power on a high altitude take off.

 

There's a simpler shortcut which does not require standing on the brakes at full power while you go through the process (a problem when the airplane has more power). You can ballpark the proper mixture settings at run-up power by using a method similar to what you may have done at altitude during your primary training.

 

At run-up power, lean until you see the rpm rise, peak and drop. Enrichen back to where it peaked. To allow for greater the greater fuel demands at takeoff power, enrichen about 3 turns of the vernier mixture control. 

 

There is some variation among individual aircraft, usually in how many turns of the mixture to enrichen, so, unless you have done it before, you will still want to go to full power briefly to confirm you are getting the power you should. But that only takes a moment and with an airplane that has a target fuel flow, is even easier.

 

It's the method almost universally taught at Colorado flight schools.

[jlunseth]

When I did Leadville I leaned to full rich and 36" of MP.

 

When you fly in the mountains a few times, you notice that they make the runways quite alot longer than they do in the flatlands.  3400 is a nice runway for a rural strip in Minnesota at about 1,000 feet MSL.  LXV is 6400.  So if your rollout is 3000 you are not even half way down the strip. 

[midlifeflyer]

When I did Leadville I leaned to full rich and 36" of MP.

 

 

Yeah, I've taken off there full rich with high MP also (actually it was the trainee doing the takeoff).

 

But I'm not so sure "leaned to full rich" isn't an oxymoron.

[chrisk]

When I did Leadville I leaned to full rich and 36" of MP.

 

When you fly in the mountains a few times, you notice that they make the runways quite alot longer than they do in the flatlands.  3400 is a nice runway for a rural strip in Minnesota at about 1,000 feet MSL.  LXV is 6400.  So if your rollout is 3000 you are not even half way down the strip. 

When I depart a high altitude airport, I go full rich and 40" of MP   No leaning with a turbo on take off.

[aaronk25]

When I depart a high altitude airport, I go full rich and 40" of MP No leaning with a turbo on take off.

Show off

[chrisk]

Show off

It still takes a lot of runway!  My highest DA takeoff was at Flagstaff.  It is 7000 MSL, but the DA was right at 10,000.  One of these days I will make it to Leadville and pickup a certificate. 

 

Anyway, I have to lean for ground operations at high elevations.

[aaronk25]

It still takes a lot of runway! My highest DA takeoff was at Flagstaff. It is 7000 MSL, but the DA was right at 10,000. One of these days I will make it to Leadville and pickup a certificate.

Anyway, I have to lean for ground operations at high elevations.

Took off from Leadville 2 years ago in my J 12,200da! Ground roll was 3500ft.

That was 1/2 fuel 92 lbs wife abs light bags.....kept nose low tip toed it off and climbed out 200fpm initially.

Turbo would have been nice!

[midlifeflyer]

It still takes a lot of runway! My highest DA takeoff was at Flagstaff. It is 7000 MSL, but the DA was right at 10,000. One of these days I will make it to Leadville and pickup a certificate..

Don't forget the T-shirt also.

Yep. everyone focuses on the power but there is a loss of other things at high D-Alt including airfoil efficiency - both wing and prop.