Mooney Aircraft Performance

JohnD · September 21, 2014

I am looking to purchase a Mooney airplane and trying to get comparable cruise performance numbers for the M20K 231, M20K 252, M20M Bravo, and the M20R Ovation. I have looked all over the internet for comparable performance numbers of these airplanes. I have searched for hours on the internet and cannot find a consolidated chart that lists same altitude performance. The only thing I can find is the performance charts on the rocket and missile. What2fly's website does not list an altitude for it's numbers.

I want to see what the cruise performance numbers are for each aircraft at say, 10,000ft. My mission profile is going to be between 8000 - 12,000 foot altitudes for 200 miles in Texas. If someone has a chart or a website link I could go to would you post it? If not could you post your aircraft's performance numbers here?

So what are your performance numbers ( Altitude, Speed, Fuel burn, etc) you have seen on your aircraft? I would like to see how the aircraft perform at 10,000 feet or as close to 10 as you have. Thank you very much for any help you can give me.

Altitude Airspeed Fuel Burn (gph) Power % MAP RPM

Rocket (example) 12,000' 186 TAS 15.0 55 26 2,200

M20K 231 10,000 ? ? ? ? ?

M20K 252 10,000

M20M Bravo 10,000

M20R Ovation 10,000

John DeFranco

(469) 338-1226

johndefranco@yahoo.com

chrisk · September 21, 2014

Here is a summary of J vs 231K performance.

http://www.mooneypilots.com/mapalog/M20K231%20Eval%20Files/M20K231_Eval.htm

Anyway, for a 200 mile trip, you probably don't need a turbo. A J or Ovation probably fits your mission. Now, if your taking 600 mile trips, the turbo is very nice, especially going east. But it take 100 miles to get to altitude, then 100 to get back down (assuming 20,000 feet and 500 fpm). Also the difference between a 150 kt plane and a 190 kt plane over 200 miles is 15 minutes, and the fuel burn difference can be considerable. Being cheap, I am more likely to be flying at 55% power.

**carusoam** · September 22, 2014

Can anyone point towards an online resource that helps a prospective Mooney buyer select the proper Mooney for the mission?

John be ready to define your mission. At least 90% of your flights will fall into a single Mooney's Mission.

You have selected altitudes that are not inherently beneficial to turbocharged aircraft, but you listed mostly TC'd aircraft.

Are you avoiding O2 use for one reason or another.

My preference is staying below O2 levels, with four adult seats, and respectable power to weight ratio...

Best regards,

-a-

**Parker_Woodruff** · September 22, 2014

I'll give you an opposite opinion as a fellow Texas resident. I owned an M20K and used it to travel on frequent 200 nm trips in Florida at 10,000-12,000 feet. The turbo offers a faster climb to altitude. It gives you more options for getting around the cloud buildups, a faster climb to cooler temps, and a little more true airspeed.

At your 10,000 - 12,000 ft altitudes, expect 165-170 KTAS from an M20K (231, 252, and Encore)

I live in your area and would be more than happy to help you in your search and eventual transition training.

JohnD · September 22, 2014

Can anyone point towards an online resource that helps a prospective Mooney buyer select the proper Mooney for the mission?

John be ready to define your mission. At least 90% of your flights will fall into a single Mooney's Mission.

You have selected altitudes that are not inherently beneficial to turbocharged aircraft, but you listed mostly TC'd aircraft.

Are you avoiding O2 use for one reason or another.

My preference is staying below O2 levels, with four adult seats, and respectable power to weight ratio...

Best regards,

-a-

-a-

I will be flying between Dallas and Houston 70 - 80% of the time but I will definitely do some longer trips. I feel the Ovation is perfect for what I want but would consider the TC'd aircraft if the price is right. The reason I listed the TC'd aircraft is because I am looking more for speed and there are a lot more of them fore sale. Plus there are not as many ovations to choose from in my price range of $150,000 - $200,000. I'm not really avoiding the O2 levels. I just don't think it is very beneficial based on my trip length. Thank you for your input.

JD

**aviatoreb** · September 22, 2014

Here is a summary of J vs 231K performance.

http://www.mooneypilots.com/mapalog/M20K231%20Eval%20Files/M20K231_Eval.htm

Anyway, for a 200 mile trip, you probably don't need a turbo. A J or Ovation probably fits your mission. Now, if your taking 600 mile trips, the turbo is very nice, especially going east. But it take 100 miles to get to altitude, then 100 to get back down (assuming 20,000 feet and 500 fpm). Also the difference between a 150 kt plane and a 190 kt plane over 200 miles is 15 minutes, and the fuel burn difference can be considerable. Being cheap, I am more likely to be flying at 55% power.

This is a less talked about spot where the rocket upgrade really shines over a 231. I've timed climb to 17k in 12:xx .. at 88% cruise climb and always I climb pitched to keep cool cylinders - mid last spring - on a cool but not cold day.. Its worth it to go high even for relatively short trips.

JohnD · September 22, 2014

I'll give you an opposite opinion as a fellow Texas resident. I owned an M20K and used it to travel on frequent 200 nm trips in Florida at 10,000-12,000 feet. The turbo offers a faster climb to altitude. It gives you more options for getting around the cloud buildups, a faster climb to cooler temps, and a little more true airspeed.

At your 10,000 - 12,000 ft altitudes, expect 165-170 KTAS from an M20K (231, 252, and Encore)

I live in your area and would be more than happy to help you in your search and eventual transition training.

Hey Parker,

Part of the reason I was looking at the TC'd aircraft are for some of the exact reasons you mentioned. If you don't mind contacting me (469) 338-1226 or sending me your info I would like to speak to you when you have some free time.

JD

**Parker_Woodruff** · September 22, 2014

Hey Parker,

Part of the reason I was looking at the TC'd aircraft are for some of the exact reasons you mentioned. If you don't mind contacting me (469) 338-1226 or sending me your info I would like to speak to you when you have some free time.

JD

Cool. I'll call you tonight or tomorrow and send you a PM with my contact info

**Danb** · September 22, 2014

I went from a J model to a Bravo about 8 yrs ago, on your mission the J would fit quite nicely especially the efficiency ,but if you plan on doing the trip on a regular basis it is nice to have the capability to climb over weather,turbulance ice whatever, you pick up a lot of the lost fuel on the long descent. The greatest thing about our Mooneys is the vast capabilities of the fleet. In your example I fly at 10,000 ft. At 31-32 in. And 2400 RPM's around 190 knots for some reason my Bravo which is a GX Being one of the newer ones seem to beat the POH numbers by about 5 knots...I burn around 17.5. 18 gal. Per hour. Of course on longer trips going east 17000-22000 ft. Puts you close to older King Airs and past most twins then burning much less fuel..it's all relative...

**carusoam** · September 22, 2014

You are in good hands, JD...

And in the near center of Mooney country!

Best regards,

-a-

chrisk · September 22, 2014

I'll give you an opposite opinion as a fellow Texas resident. I owned an M20K and used it to travel on frequent 200 nm trips in Florida at 10,000-12,000 feet. The turbo offers a faster climb to altitude. It gives you more options for getting around the cloud buildups, a faster climb to cooler temps, and a little more true airspeed.

At your 10,000 - 12,000 ft altitudes, expect 165-170 KTAS from an M20K (231, 252, and Encore)

I live in your area and would be more than happy to help you in your search and eventual transition training.

Parker, you make some good points and its how I justified getting my plane. ☺ I make frequent trips between Austin and Galveston. In the summer, it is very nice to get to the cooler and smoother air. But if that was my only mission, I would have gone with a J. Where my 231 really shines is longer trips like my trip to Tampa last year. A tad over 4 hours at fl210 and a great tail wind. The way back took a bit longer at 8000. It did really well when I took off at Flagstaff which had a density altitude of 10,000. A turbo is very nice to have, but I'd trade it for an Ovation or Eagle most days. Even at 75% an O puts out as much horsepower as my 231 at 100%. Also an Ovation might have air-conditioning, which would be really nice on those 100+ days in the summer.

Cruiser · September 22, 2014

I am looking to purchase a Mooney airplane and trying to get comparable cruise performance numbers for the M20K 231, M20K 252, M20M Bravo, and the M20R Ovation. I have looked all over the internet for comparable performance numbers of these airplanes. I have searched for hours on the internet and cannot find a consolidated chart that lists same altitude performance. The only thing I can find is the performance charts on the rocket and missile. What2fly's website does not list an altitude for it's numbers.

I want to see what the cruise performance numbers are for each aircraft at say, 10,000ft. My mission profile is going to be between 8000 - 12,000 foot altitudes for 200 miles in Texas. If someone has a chart or a website link I could go to would you post it? If not could you post your aircraft's performance numbers here?

So what are your performance numbers ( Altitude, Speed, Fuel burn, etc) you have seen on your aircraft? I would like to see how the aircraft perform at 10,000 feet or as close to 10 as you have. Thank you very much for any help you can give me.

Altitude Airspeed Fuel Burn (gph) Power % MAP RPM

Rocket (example) 12,000' 186 TAS 15.0 55 26 2,200

M20K 231 10,000 ? ? ? ? ?

M20K 252 10,000

M20M Bravo 10,000

M20R Ovation 10,000

John DeFranco

(469) 338-1226

johndefranco@yahoo.com

this will give you the first two (most important) values.

http://mooneyspace.com/files/file/16-mooney-model-altitude-vs-speed/

carqwik · September 22, 2014

I'd suggest the Ovation...it is faster than all the TC's aircraft in your group at 10,000 feet. It will climb just as fast too with plenty of power. The ideal altitudes for all of the TC'd Mooneys is really in the mid- to high-teens to reap the rewards of TCing.

Robert C. · September 22, 2014

I have an Ovation (3); on 2 recent trips:

9000ft 186kts TAS 15.2 gph at 50 ROP, WOT (21.9 MP), 2450 rpm

10000ft 183kts TAS 14.1 gph at 50 LOP, WOT (21.9 MP), 2450 rpm

9000ft 176kts TAS 13.2 gph at 50 LOP, WOT (21.9 MP), 2400 rpm

Robert

**aviatoreb** · September 22, 2014

I have an Ovation (3); on 2 recent trips:

9000ft 186kts TAS 15.2 gph at 50 ROP, WOT (21.9 MP), 2450 rpm

10000ft 183kts TAS 14.1 gph at 50 LOP, WOT (21.9 MP), 2450 rpm

9000ft 176kts TAS 13.2 gph at 50 LOP, WOT (21.9 MP), 2400 rpm

Robert

Tat's some impressive efficiency at that speed.

Robert C. · September 22, 2014

yep, I'm a happy camper. My bird is rather heavy (U/L of 904 lbs) with an A/C that i happily would have traded for extra payload so I wasn't expecting it. Think 9000ft is the sweet spot for long range cruising, lower down the numbers didn't look nearly as good, but i didn't record them and happily ATC cleared me for 9000ft fairly quickly.

**carusoam** · September 22, 2014

Robert,

With the O3, you have 2700rpm available in the quiver...

And a (at least one?) recommended cruise power setting of 2550?

Are you using 2550 or avoiding it for any reason?

Speed vs. Noise vs. Efficiency...

Best regards,

-a-

**Jeff_S** · September 22, 2014

Hi Robert. I looked at 446PC and flew it with Richard Simile once, but couldn't come to terms with Premier on trading in my J. It was a nice machine. Those speed numbers seem pretty impressive. I was cruising home from Cincinnati in my O3 yesterday at 9,000', running 2500 RPM and WOT and 182 KTAS. I had it at 16GPH though because I'm still doing a bit of engine break-in and didn't want the CHTs too high.

**KSMooniac** · September 22, 2014

I'm not sure there is a wrong answer for this question/mission. All of the Mooneys will work great for that trip...so the question becomes what else do you want to do...family travel? Mountains? Would you (and family) be OK using oxygen? Do you want a newer airframe at higher initial cost? Air conditioning?

If you really are opposed to flying high, I'd go for the Ovation hands-down. It will be more efficient than the factory turbos at 10-12k' and below.

**carusoam** · September 22, 2014

Thanks Scott in Kansas from Texas,

You nailed my mission statement! I should write that down....

Best regards,

-a-

Robert C. · September 23, 2014

Robert,

With the O3, you have 2700rpm available in the quiver...

And a (at least one?) recommended cruise power setting of 2550?

Are you using 2550 or avoiding it for any reason?

Speed vs. Noise vs. Efficiency...

Best regards,

-a-

Hi Andrew,

I'm still experimenting; my 1st 43 hrs in N446PC were largely spent in shooting approaches and practicing holds - under the hood So i didn't have many stretches of cross-country where I could play with settings after the initial cross country when i picked her up.

I have focused so far on rpm of 2400-2500 largely for noise and efficiency reasons. I know the STC power table for the 310hp conversion shows performance at 2700 rpm but i just haven't gotten to seriously trying it.

The 2700 rpm is nice on T/O and initial climb though

On a tangent: is the NJ Mooney group still active? Thought I had left a message on the website but haven't heard back. would be fun to get together with area Mooniacs.

Robert

Robert C. · September 23, 2014

Hi Robert. I looked at 446PC and flew it with Richard Simile once, but couldn't come to terms with Premier on trading in my J. It was a nice machine. Those speed numbers seem pretty impressive. I was cruising home from Cincinnati in my O3 yesterday at 9,000', running 2500 RPM and WOT and 182 KTAS. I had it at 16GPH though because I'm still doing a bit of engine break-in and didn't want the CHTs too high.

Hi Jeff, interesting. I dealt with other people at Premier and while I bought from them (obviously )

I did not have a good experience with them and while I won't publicly slag them if anyone is thinking of buying or selling through them I'd be happy to privately share my experiences.

Robert

PS: image of the speed/rpm/pwr setting attached

**Danb** · September 23, 2014

Robert I agree with you regarding the sales experience and also decline respond here but would be happy to discuss privately. Also I have not used them for my annuals for about 5 years any response in that regard would be greatly appreciated. I always use MSC's but from time to time another set of eyes are useful...

**carusoam** · September 24, 2014

Expect a cruise setting of 2700 rpm to be noisier with higher vibrations and increased fuel consumption...

Some prefer 2550...

Just checking how your experience on the topic is working out.

NJ Mooney group is always active. Our latest discussion is on or about the BK KSN 770. One of us is setting up a visit within flying distance to an installer (also on here).

The lead guy at NJ mooney is 201er (here). He has been unusually quiet for a few days....?

Definitely get on their email list. It is a good group to be part of.

Best regards,

-a-

JohnD · September 29, 2014

Thank you for all of the responses. That really helped.

JD

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