mike_elliott Posted January 6, 2014 Report Posted January 6, 2014 Still can't get my quotes to work right on the site..Anyway, Bob you will be in the air well before my trip and better than new. I'll explore the manual vs. electric. Thanks. PS. I'll be extra careful and on the watch for crappy taxiways will up there Tom try setting the mooneyspace.com site in compatibility mode of IE explorer. Should fix it, till Microsoft busts it with a new release, oh wait, they are busy fixing heathcare.gov site. Microsoft hired to fix bugs, does anyone other than me find this humorous? 1 Quote
canuckpilot Posted January 7, 2014 Report Posted January 7, 2014 My 65E came with electric speed brakes. Not sure I would have spent the $ to have them installed, but they sure have come in handy at times. Not only do they get you down quickly in "Chop-N-Drop" situations, but they lessen the "Chop" part by allowing reasonable (read: kind) power changes to your engine. It can help avoid shock cooling if your engine religion of choice includes such a notion. It's also comforting to know they're there as an option... -matt. Quote
ArtVandelay Posted January 8, 2014 Report Posted January 8, 2014 Do they much affect at landing speeds? Quote
Bob_Belville Posted January 8, 2014 Report Posted January 8, 2014 Do they much affect at landing speeds? no Quote
wishboneash Posted January 8, 2014 Report Posted January 8, 2014 Same. Dropped into the LA basin last weekend and popped speed brakes descending out of 9500 over Cajon pass to get down to pattern alt at REI. Would not have made that direct descent w/o. Helped enable a downwind entry well ahead of the Cherokee traffic putting in from the south! Great tool to have in the bag, especially with the turbo! Same thing descending from the Banning pass where I was at 11,500 ft doing 200kts over the ground down to Thermal (-115 ft). The speed brakes certainly helped. Quote
phecksel Posted January 8, 2014 Report Posted January 8, 2014 The only time I can remember wishing I had them were the few times I flew over Detroit's CBA to the cutout around the VOR and then decending into PTK. IRC, it was 850 feet per minute to pattern altitude, and in an already fast C, made for some interesting issues screaming into the pattern at near red line speeds to a busy airport. Quote
Mooney_Allegro Posted January 31, 2014 Report Posted January 31, 2014 I just had my 100 series Speedbrakes overhauled by Precise Flight in Bend, OR. It cost $1000. One of the tiny springs was bound up slightly, but it didn't give me any issues. Dave Mollman is the guy at Precise Flight that is the speed brake man. I personally met with him in Bend and was very impressed with their operations. I got the speed brakes anodized red (since mine were faded) at Redmond Metal Finishing before I drove them back to Bend for reassembly. That cost $130, however if you have them anodized first, make sure there are no adhesives, paint, tape or anything else sticking on the speed brakes or the anodizing won't penetrate the aluminum. I had that problem & had to fly out to take care of it. The Speedbrakes work well to prevent shock cooling on a rapid descent in the event ATC keeps you high. Also it helps in dissipating airspeed quickly on final in the event you get fast due to gusts etc. You aren't suppose to touchdown with them deployed, however the plane lands just fine with them deployed. Quote
RJBrown Posted January 31, 2014 Report Posted January 31, 2014 You aren't suppose to touchdown with them deployed, however the plane lands just fine with them deployed. My understanding is that the size of the speedbrake had to be small enough to allow them to remain up during landing and takeoff and to not create too large an asymetrical control problem if only one deploys for certification/saftey issues. If I used them at all they usually stayed out through touchdown. Make the plane easier to land, less float. Once I left them up just to see what effect they had on takeoff. Using a 10,000' runway for the experiment I found a negligible effect on the Rocket. At slow speeds they dont do very much. Remember drag increases exponetially with speed. Quite effective at 200KTS hardly there at 80. Quote
ArtVandelay Posted January 31, 2014 Report Posted January 31, 2014 You aren't suppose to touchdown with them deployed, however the plane lands just fine with them deployed. Why aren't you suppose to touchdown with them deployed?? Quote
fantom Posted January 31, 2014 Report Posted January 31, 2014 Why aren't you suppose to touchdown with them deployed?? Because some old wife said so Quote
AndyFromCB Posted January 31, 2014 Report Posted January 31, 2014 When I did my transition training on the mooney, we performed a take off with speed brakes out, landing flaps and gear hanging out to a 1000AGL. A none issue. I also had one fail to retract on langing before I overhauled mine (mine are vacuum, total overhaul cost including new vacuum valve actuator, new springs, new bearings, turning the pulleys on a lathe was about $200), a non issue as well, very little aileron needed to compensate at patern speeds. I don't use mine that often, but when I do, they are priceless. Quote
jlunseth Posted January 31, 2014 Report Posted January 31, 2014 Your plane your decision, but if it were mine I would not put speedbrakes on an E. I have a 231 and have used them a few times when ATC has kept me up high, higher than your E would normally fly, and then wants me down several thou. in a big hurry. But for the most part speed management is just not that big an issue in the older Mooney's, say K on back. The newer models are a different deal. I am told by my A&P and people who fly them, that they are slick and fast enough to exceed Vne if you just tip the nose over to descend, and even with some power pulled off, so they have more use for them. If I had an E and had in mind to sell it at some point in the future, I think I would look for mods that would speed it up, not slow it down, and after that for good GPS and weather equipment on the panel. My guess is that speedbrakes on an E would create no addition to resale value in this market. You can touch down with the speedbrakes deployed all you want. The one good caution I have read, was a piece Don Kaye wrote for this forum about testing the brakes on his Bravo. He cautioned not to deploy them immediately before landing because of the negative VS that results, unless you have practiced. But if you have them out on final and leave them out it is a nonevent. I have done it quite alot for practice Power Off 180's for commercial, when I am too high on final, and if you have them pre-deployed there is just no issue. Quote
John Pleisse Posted January 31, 2014 Report Posted January 31, 2014 I used them delivering an Ovation 2. Dropped like a rock from 12,500 to pattern altitude, flew the pattern and landed with them deployed, by the book. I may have made 2 power changes and one trim change all the way down. You can spend $6k on a 74 E pretty quick. I'd save the cash for the tanks or a surprise crank case or exhaust manifold crack......you never know. But I love it when great owners refurb pre-J's........ I am living vicariously through you. 1 Quote
jetdriven Posted January 31, 2014 Report Posted January 31, 2014 I wonder how much weight the kit adds? The only thing Mooney pilots care more about than speed, is weight. At least it appears so from all the bladder-bashing threads. Quote
fantom Posted January 31, 2014 Report Posted January 31, 2014 Speed brakes good.....bladders bad I deploy the speed brakes right after touch down, while I'm retracting my flaps....only in the Mooney. Quote
Bob_Belville Posted January 31, 2014 Report Posted January 31, 2014 I wonder how much weight the kit adds? The only thing Mooney pilots care more about than speed, is weight. At least it appears so from all the bladder-bashing threads. The Precise Flight manual brakes STC on my E from 1997 indicate 9.0 pounds @ 70" arm. Quote
jlunseth Posted January 31, 2014 Report Posted January 31, 2014 Well, I should probably add one caveat about there being no issue landing with speedbrakes deployed. There is a theory that at slower than normal landing speeds, they can cause a burble or stall effect on the horiz. stab. Never have experienced it myself, but I would not try to do some kind of short, near stall landing, with brakes deployed. I would want to be in the factory configuration. Just me. Quote
Mooney_Allegro Posted January 31, 2014 Report Posted January 31, 2014 Why aren't you suppose to touchdown with them deployed?? Why aren't you suppose to touchdown with them deployed?? I'm pretty sure that the Precise Flight speed brake supplement in my POH says not to land with them extended. I have the old series speed brakes, so maybe they removed that stipulation with the newer ones. I don't have the manual in front of me, but I'll check it when I get the plane back from maintenance. Quote
Bennett Posted January 31, 2014 Report Posted January 31, 2014 We seem to beat this subject to death, but I will just state what I do, and have done, for the 18 years or so that I have owned Mooneys with speed brakes. I keep my speed up until I am fairly close to the airport - say 6 or 7 miles. I then deploy the speed bakes (after warning my passenger that they will hear a rumble and feel some deceleration). As soon as the speed drops to below maximum speed to drop the gear, I do so. That may or may not be in the pattern - most likely just before entering the pattern. I leave the speed brakes out in the pattern, and extend flaps when in the white arc. By the time I am on final I am generally at 70 KTs, and then on final I will pop the speed brakes in and out depending on head wind components in order to stay on glide path - great with VASIs. It is not unusual for me to land with the speed brakes deployed. Sure they are less effective at low speeds, but they do make a difference. Go arounds: They retract very quickly - I have the in/out button on the yoke. Can I climb with them out? Yes, at least from sea level airports in standard conditions. I know this because I once did that inadvertently when I must have hit the button accidentally on take off roll. I saw a less than standard climb rate, and when I looked out at the wings to see if the flaps were fully deployed, instead of takeoff flaps, I saw the speed brakes were out. I immediately retracted them, and the climb rate increased. To me speed brakes are just another tool, and while I fly well enough to not use them, why not? Having had both the old vacuum system, and now the electric units, I can say I much prefer the electric speed brakes as they retract and deploy faster, and I am not putting any strain on the vacuum, system. 1 Quote
jetdriven Posted January 31, 2014 Report Posted January 31, 2014 You can keep the speed up, like 160+ knots until 2-3 miles out on the 45. Simply set the power to 22", and after a mile set it to 17" and by the time you're turning downwind you're below gear speed and abeam the numbers, below flap speed as well. It doesn't abuse the airplane either. As long as you hold it right at pattern altitude, it slows down pretty quickly. Quote
Flynnupe Posted March 24, 2014 Report Posted March 24, 2014 I recently had a pair of electric speedbrakes installed on my J model. Rick Parker who owns Parker aeronautics out of Robstown,TX near Corpus Christi installed mine. The cost for the install was fair and he knows Mooneys since he used to work at the factory. Quote
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