Mooney 231 versus 252

[benpilot]

 

Agree. One can buy a nice 231 for under 90k. 

[chrisk]

I started my instrument training in a Cherokee 180. I was rolling along when I purchased my Mooney and thought I would just pickup where I left off in my plane. Man, who was I kidding.

Learning a new plane and its systems along with instrument training was virtually impossible. I was really regressing. Things are so much simpler in a fixed pitch, fixed gear aircraft. Simple things like proper glideslope intercepts turned into quite a challenge in the Mooney. I had to stop training until I was completely comfortable with the plane and its systems.

That being said, there's no doubt that obtaining an IR in the 180 would be much easier. But at the end of the day, the objective is to use your plane in IMC. With that end game in mind, it only made sense to continue training in my Mooney... After I figured out how to fly it!

Man do I feel the pain.   I got my instrument rating in a 172 with simple steam gauges.  Moving to my 231 wasn't bad, all I had to learn was the HSI (pretty quick) and DME.   I had no GPS, and shooting and ILS or VOR approach was no problem.   Then I upgraded my panel.   An Aspen and a GTN650.   All I can say is: Wow was I behind the plane!   What does that stupid OBS/CDI button do? (Garmins manual sucks, as it doesn't make it clear) I kept looking for the vertical guidance on the HSI display of the Aspen, but it's not there (It's on the AI.  Not something to discover in the clouds).  How do you set an altitude alert?  etc.  --Finally after a few re-reads of the manual and a few flights with a safety pilot, it came together. 

[Marauder]

I started my instrument training in a Cherokee 180. I was rolling along when I purchased my Mooney and thought I would just pickup where I left off in my plane. Man, who was I kidding. Learning a new plane and its systems along with instrument training was virtually impossible. I was really regressing. Things are so much simpler in a fixed pitch, fixed gear aircraft. Simple things like proper glideslope intercepts turned into quite a challenge in the Mooney. I had to stop training until I was completely comfortable with the plane and its systems. That being said, there's no doubt that obtaining an IR in the 180 would be much easier. But at the end of the day, the objective is to use your plane in IMC. With that end game in mind, it only made sense to continue training in my Mooney... After I figured out how to fly it! Man do I feel the pain. I got my instrument rating in a 172 with simple steam gauges. Moving to my 231 wasn't bad, all I had to learn was the HSI (pretty quick) and DME. I had no GPS, and shooting and ILS or VOR approach was no problem. Then I upgraded my panel. An Aspen and a GTN650. All I can say is: Wow was I behind the plane! What does that stupid OBS/CDI button do? (Garmins manual sucks, as it doesn't make it clear) I kept looking for the vertical guidance on the HSI display of the Aspen, but it's not there (It's on the AI. Not something to discover in the clouds). How do you set an altitude alert? etc. --Finally after a few re-reads of the manual and a few flights with a safety pilot, it came together.

Your transition sounds the same as mine. It took me quite a few flights before I could say I was flying from the front seat again! But once that transition was complete, all I can say is WOW! Never had such an improved situational awareness and to have that on top of the HSI is amazing. The OBS allows you to select a specific course line off of a waypoint. Useful if you are told to intercept a radial from a VOR. There are a couple of videos on YouTube that explain it much better than that crappy manual you mentioned.

[FlyDave]

I got my instrument rating in my 1967 Cherokee 140. It had a "shotgun" panel, a Narco Mark 12D w/glideslope, KX-155 w/VOR/LOC and a KN-64 DME. It was the only plane I had done instrument work in and the shotgun panel was "natural" to me. I was comfortable flying instruments in that plane. Then I bought my Mooney.

The Mooney was completely different. It has a standard 6-pack (nothing was where I was used to it being) and a 430 (Yikes - LEARNING curve). After flying it VFR for 17 hours, I thought I could fly it IFR - Man was I wrong! I hopped in with an instructor friend of mine with a buddy of his in the back seat and I proceeded to embarrass myself on one VFR practice approach under the hood from El Monte (KEMT) to Fullerton (KFUL). I was behind the airplane AND the avionics. The speed was addicting and it just went down hill from there. I had an instrument rating but you couldn't tell by the way I flew that night.

I think primary training (for GA) should be done in a slow lumbering plane like a 172. A new pilot has a lot more time to react at those slower speeds and will tend to get themselves into less trouble. For instrument training - in whatever airplane - the student should be very comfortable flying the airplane (power, trim and airspeed) and should have at least a good grasp of the avionics.

As discussed previously in this thread, military training is vastly different. GA is open to anyone with any skill level. The "puppy mill" mentality of some flight schools/instructors is dangerous - to say the least.

 

Dave

[benpilot]

I did a checkout in the 172 and Piper in the local club with an Aspen EFD and Garmin 430W glass panel. It is a bit different after training on the standard six pack steam gauges and glad that I learned both. Agree on using slow plane for PPL training which is what I did. Will finish checkride and then do Mooney training with a good CFI before IFR work. We also shot a GPS approach a few times to give me a taste of how that works. If I do buy a plane, it will definitely have a Garmin 530W. I like the Aspen glass panel and finding one with it would be nice.

[mike_elliott]

I did a checkout in the 172 and Piper in the local club with an Aspen EFD and Garmin 430W glass panel. It is a bit different after training on the standard six pack steam gauges and glad that I learned both. Agree on using slow plane for PPL training which is what I did. Will finish checkride and then do Mooney training with a good CFI before IFR work. We also shot a GPS approach a few times to give me a taste of how that works. If I do buy a plane, it will definitely have a Garmin 530W. I like the Aspen glass panel and finding one with it would be nice.

Skynewbie, IMO, Any training should be done with a good CFI. Your Mooney training should be done with a good Mooney CFI. It will make a huge difference to you. For example, I would not want to train in a Cirrus with a good flight school or flying club Cessna CFI. Get make and model specific training for your best bang for the buck and for maximum benefits. Info like what speeds are the easiest on the actuator and gear system for gear extension and retraction? What is the minimum safe IAS you can slip a Rocket at? etc.

[benpilot]

Thanks Mike,

Good advice, I will find a good Mooney instructor from MAPA around KPAO to do transition after passing my checkride.